What nonprofit leaders learned in 2025 | RKD Group: Thinkers

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Justin McCord (00:04.898)

Welcome to the RKD Group Thinkers podcast. I'm your host, Justin McCord, and with me is Ronnie Richard. Ronnie, happy holidays to you.

and likewise to you and to all of our listeners.

And to all of our listeners, we have endured another year and made it to the end of the year. as one does at the end of the year, today's going to be all about reflection. We did this a couple years ago. so it's like a little holiday treat for us. It was received so well that we're going to...

Do it again so Ronnie tell us about the special edition of the show.

So if you watch TV shows, and I honestly don't know if they still do this, but I'm thinking back to when I was younger, TV shows would sometimes have the clips episode when, you know, they have 27, 28 episodes they need to do in a season. And sometimes the writers just needed a break. So you show a clips episode where you put together some of the best or the funniest episodes. so that's what we're doing here today. We're going to share some clips from some of our favorite episodes of the year.

Ronnie Richard (01:22.786)

but we're looking at it just a little bit differently than the TV shows would do.

I love those episodes. holiday episodes, those are number one. Halloween episodes are number two, right? And then number three being those clips episodes. when you first told me that we were gonna do some version of like a clips episode,

I think I was afraid that you were actually going to just isolate the video of me taking a drink of something in every episode because I tend to have, you know, coffee or water or something.

Who says we're not doing that?

Well, just, you know, I know that our audience won't be able to see the cup that I have that I'm.

Ronnie Richard (02:19.416)

Stone Cold Steve Austin, well done.

Yeah, today is a Stone Cold Steve Austin Cup Day. And so if you are in fact going to do an entire episode of Justin taking sips, I hope that Stone Cold definitely makes the.

He has to cut.

Okay, so realistically, like what we wanted to do here was take a step back and reflect on the year of the Thinkers podcast. And not just for us, but for our guests, look back at the journey of the sector and threads and conversations that have connected us through this year. So on this episode, we're going to highlight really the past year on Arcade Group Thinkers and

and a few trends that stood out to us along the way. And I would ask that folks stick around to the very end and we're going to talk about our favorite moment on the show this season and maybe our favorite moment on the podcast ever. So Ronnie, what's our first thread?

Ronnie Richard (03:31.374)

Well, it's a big topic that's growing bigger every year, it feels like, and I don't think it's going anywhere. And that's AI and the AI evolution that we find ourselves in right now, whether it's chat GPT or Apple intelligence or Gemini or Claude or whatever, it's just AI has permeated our culture and we're seeing it flow into the mission driven space that we work in as well. you know, that's where we find ourselves.

Yeah, you the last couple years we've we have been fortunate to have conversations with. Multiple thought leaders. On this topic and and folks that I think might set the temperature for AI in the nonprofit sector. You know people like Nathan Chappelle and Mallory Erickson and and our very own Charles Lowe's that Kelly had cheering Koshi. So so while it is this big topic.

for us in 2025, it's something that we have wrestled with. Maybe it almost feels a little more common, Ronnie, for you and I, because we have regularly talked about this with guests. And so this year, I feel like we've seen a little bit of like the settling of the hype in a way, and really more of a practical infusion of pragmatism and approaches

to AI. but that's my perspective. Like, help us pull on this thread a little bit more.

Yeah. I mean, really I'll leave it to, the clips role play here. Cause our guests dive into that topic and they do approach it the way you're talking about where first it's Mark cross who's the head of sales at hatch. mean, hatch is an AI powered prospect research platform, but in his clip, he actually talks about how he used AI to answer some questions about starting a business, asking it like, what do I do? Where do I go from here? What's the next step?

Ronnie Richard (05:36.306)

and that's, so that's clip one. And then second one, have Tim Serentino. He's the chair of the fundraising effectiveness project. And he talks about really weighing that, that practicality versus, you know, the importance of leveraging AI, but making sure you don't completely rely on AI for fundraising. You have to keep that human element in there. So, so here's, Mark and Tim on their thoughts on AI.

AI and ChatGPT was just the easiest copilot of like, I want to do this. Literally what's first. And then when it says something like, you need to get a business license and you need to file an EIN, you can go one step further and there's no dumb questions about like, literally tell me, step one, step two, step three, how do I do this? Where this paperwork, where do I mail it? What do I have to pay? What do I have to do?

I started bringing on other people within the industry that I'd gotten to know along the way to help with some projects and some great people. But I had a ton of questions around, like, are these employees? And how do I pay them? What are the tax consequences? And it was invaluable having the assistant to just some very out of touch old millennial who was like,

I don't know how to do any of this. Hold my hand, please.

Can AI write a better fundraising letter than me? Probably. Can it be more effective at fundraising over time? Absolutely. Right. You have these robot people that are starting to talk to donors and stuff like that. He says, but is that the world that, you know, we want to live in? Is that the type of fundraising that we want where where that happens? No, 90 % can probably to be done eventually and especially within five years by agentive

Ronnie Richard (07:36.174)

Yeah. Elements, but that last mile of the marathon should be a So, so I can certainly relate to Mark here. I know I've used chat GPT for so many little things, like just an everyday life, but you know, there's the work functions and then there's like things like recommending some movies to watch with my kids or how long do I cook this beef cut that a certain temperature or Hey, I'm looking to.

some summer vacation ideas, help me out if I'm looking for xyz, you know, it really has a lot of useful everyday functions.

Let me tell you my two favorite uses of AI that I had this year. They were both this fall. So one you and I have talked about, we converted our dining room into a library. My wife is an avid book reader and we didn't use our formal dining room a whole lot, so wanted to convert it into a library with built-in bookshelves and those sorts of things. And so I used AI to build the entire work plan and construction plan.

down to the cuts and the order of the cuts that I needed to make and and it was remarkable not only to see the the work product but then also to share it with my dad who is a the handiest person and a craftsman to for him to have that kind of shortcut was also amazing. So that was use case number one and then use case number two was based off of you know that working out so well for me this year for the first time I

cooked our Thanksgiving meal for our family and extended family and, had, know, the day before Thanksgiving and Thanksgiving morning also had a five K that I was running on Thanksgiving morning. And I needed to figure out like timing of the dozen different dishes that I was preparing. And so, not only did AI help me in, in helping order things, but it actually built for me a dashboard.

Justin McCord (09:43.384)

with every recipe and time blocks on when to do things. so like it's, you know, it's kind of like it's beyond the ultimate personal assistant for the Marvel Universe fans. Like this is Jarvis for for a lot of a lot of ways. And in the nonprofit sector, it's like it's accelerating our work and it's opening up new doors to the extent that we can open up our minds on how we.

interact with it. so I think the key is, you know, not to get lost on on dealing with the system that's coded in data, like don't let the technology overlord idea hamper you instead, stay connected to what makes us human and, and, and use it and use it in ways that benefit you ethically and responsibly. And I think that that's what Tim was referring to in his comments.

Right. And that's exactly where we're going with our second thread here, which is all about treating donors as humans and not thinking about them as metrics or as bits of data on a spreadsheet.

If you think about, so that first thread is, you know, AI to tap into efficiency, then the second thread is how we understand the context and the human side of charitable giving.

So we'll start in our first clip is with Lori Collins, executive vice president of Arcadia Group and head of our marketing science team. In this clip, Lori talks about a bit of an aha moment that she had in her donor research. And I'll just leave it at that for now. But then the second clip we have Mike Esposito. He's a fundraising consultant and coach in New York. And he shares how to him relationships.

Ronnie Richard (11:33.078)

remain the core of genuine fundraising, even in our time of automation and scaling and AI and all these things are really starting to gain prominence. here's Lori and Mike.

is a difference between my research over the last 15 years doing tracking study, charitable giving. It was kind of interesting. just recently found out the reason why my research wasn't matching some other very venerable, well-sourced research out there such as the Lilly School of Philanthropy because their research excludes the lower end giving, right?

He's a

Ronnie Richard (12:14.658)

I've always included that. I don't care if you give a dollar to charity. That to me is a reflection of your heart, not your finances, right? How generous are you? So for a long time, I saw for about the period of 12 years up until the last three years, that the proportion of US adults giving charity was incredibly consistent. It was 54 % plus or minus two percentage points.

how

Justin McCord (12:32.332)

years that.

charitably.

Justin McCord (12:44.206)

over this 12-year period. That's incredible. Meanwhile, we saw the Lilly School of Philanthropy, charitable giving is going down. Well, at issue, there were two differences there. They're tracking charitable giving $25 and up, which is a low but sizable statistic when you look at the proportion, how Americans give and what they give. A good portion of them do give $25 or a little bit in and out.

was like, no, church giving.

Ronnie Richard (13:12.312)

lower in average.

year because they can that's what they can afford. I encourage clients to focus.

I like to focus on relationships as much as possible, whether the is on corporations

their individual giving, really, I feel like a lot of what we're seeing, kind of mentioned it earlier, competition amongst institutional dollars.

this increase.

Ronnie Richard (13:41.462)

I think that that's true. And there's also this increased use of AI tools to write grant proposals. there are proposals out there and leads to foundations spending fewer time meeting with, know, prospective nonprofits that are looking for funding. I tried to encourage clients to focus as much as possible on the relationships.

more grand prep. And that was.

Justin McCord (14:00.494)

So.

speaker-1 (14:09.346)

you know,

proposals.

So one thing that always stands out to me whenever I talk to Lori is that she's never afraid to try a new idea or a new challenge. She you'll rarely rarely hear her say, well, we can't do that because of X, Y, Z or but wait, that's that's not something we were. It's always she's just ready to try it.

can't tell if she's a master of improv, like if it's something that's been trained or if it's if it's something that is in her nature, right? That that yes, and that is so important in improv, but it's it truly it it reveals her curiosity. And and that helps all of us within our KD and our clients think about fundraising in a different way.

And Mike, man, he he hammered home for me this reminder that philanthropy at its heart is about the human connection and even the origin of the word, you know, from antiquity of the love of mankind. So, Lori and Mike kind of like a Cagney and Lacey, since we're all about these clip shows, you know, helping us really think about the humanity and what we do.

Ronnie Richard (15:31.406)

It's good Cagney and Lacey reference for our younger listeners.

It's it is not it is a special episode it is a special episode when you get a Cagney Cagney and Lacey reference

But it's an excellent reminder from what Mike was saying, keeping that humanity. But all right, so I'm gonna attempt a bad segue here. So speaking of human connection.

I thought you were going to say speaking of Cagney and Lacey.

No, I can't make that segue. That's that's a bridge too far. speaking of human connection, we each have points in our career path where we take a turn and make a decision or choice a fork in the road, if you will. And it's usually someone connected to us that that human connection that inspires us or pushes us to make that change. So the third thread here in our special Cagney and Lacey episode.

Ronnie Richard (16:30.292)

is all about purpose driven career change and how our guests got to where they are today. So pretty, on point segue.

What kind of scale do you want me to, is this a 1 to 10? this like a, I don't know, are we talking like, you want to know from Cagney and Lacey to Law and Order? don't know. What's the scale that you want me to work with here?

I mean, I would just take somewhere in like the good, meh, terrible. Just give it a three point scale.

You know, it was so-so. It's not your best.

I'll take so-so. We can work with that.

Justin McCord (17:15.406)

you know, segues aside.

Segways aside, one of my favorite parts about the show, beyond our ridiculous banter, is hearing about people's And I think that that's something that is unique about the Thinkers podcast. And the reality is that all of us have a story, and all of our stories are unique.

and for most it's, it's not a direct path and, where you find yourself today may not be what you intended or set out to do. And so we love to ask people about those stories and the moments that influenced them in their careers.

So in our next two clips, you'll hear from Katie Jordan. She's a consultant, a coach. She has extensive experience, background in the nonprofit sector. So she walks us through, she explores her journey from agency life to moving into her consulting role that she's in now. And then our second clip is Carlos Whitaker. He's a bestselling author and speaker. He hosts a powerful global community that he calls his Insta Familia.

And he talks about a moment where he chose to be his authentic self and, and focus on his values of how he walks with people instead of standing on issues. So here's Katie and Carlos.

Carlos Whitaker (18:54.764)

I posted a video and the video was like, know, how my right friends can.

my white friends and help the black community or their black friends in this.

moment or so I'll never forget overnight. think I lost one third of my followers on on Instagram. And when they left, let me ID. They let me know. And I just remember waking up the next morning to all these you know, again, 10 were gone and hitting delete on the video because I was trying to like, holy, I gotta, I gotta stop the bleed. So I'm going to delete it.

entire fall.

Carlos Whitaker (19:09.976)

they know it. mean, my arms they were

Carlos Whitaker (19:18.584)

Thousands of followers.

Carlos Whitaker (19:25.742)

I gotta like save face, like. And then apologize.

And I don't know if Instagram even does this anymore, but at least in 2020, when I hit delete, another pop-up pop-up on the screen that said, you sure? And I just remember that, that are you sure pop-up literally life because I said no, and I clicked no and I hit it. And then began, because if I would have clicked yes, who, like I may have gotten a few thousand people back, I would have, but I know that I wouldn't have been leading to the phrase, Ronnie, that you just talked about.

up.

Carlos Whitaker (20:00.206)

don't stand on issues, walk with people.

because I suddenly realized, wait a second, man, like people are really fired up and passionate about this. Like a lot of people that have followed me for a decade and read my blog, they cussed me out on the way out the door. they were passionate. So I started to really speak into this and I started to speak into the current cultural climate of 2020, things that were happening, but I did it in a great, and what I tried to do,

really feel passionate.

Carlos Whitaker (20:29.144)

as a grace-filled way.

And even that was a fulfilling and challenging work for 15 years, a good.

from my career.

Katy Jordan (20:39.182)

chunk of my career and I learned a lot. Ready for something, something new. And so working with people, trying to navigate some of those same questions, what is fulfilling, what is rewarding, and what does give me energy? What depletes my energy? Whether that's across your whole team to work better together and feel better about showing up for work every day or feeling motivated in your job search or.

And I was right.

Katy Jordan (21:05.71)

getting that next step in the organization you are in or realizing it's time to make a lifestyle change. So I think just that constant grounding myself and have all the answers either and there's still a lot to learn.

our career.

Justin McCord (21:15.254)

Knowing I don't

Justin McCord (21:21.858)

You you should have gone with quantum leap as your segue.

That's a good point. We all have our little quantum leap computers in our hands now.

I went for the, they're ahead of their time, right? God, I adore Carlos Whitaker and, he is just a force and a powerful speaker. and just a great human being with, an interesting outlook on life that

Influences so many and so i think that we need more of carlos and we need more carlos says in general.

Yeah, we've, we've hosted three events so far. We called that we call the shift and each one has several speakers and it's kind of like a, an inspirational event that we have. And we've had some amazing speakers and this is no way disparaging any of them, but Carlos might be my favorite speaker that we've had in the three events. So I was excited when we were able to continue that conversation on the podcast.

Ronnie Richard (22:42.44)

And I also appreciate Katie's perspective on wrestling with some of those deep ideas of what do I want to do and how do I want to spend my energy, you know, something we should all focus on. And this is the right time of year to be focusing on that reflection. As you said at the start of the show. Yeah.

Reflection is incredibly important on a daily basis and certainly at this time of the year. And, know, when I think back on this year reflecting for the sector as a whole, I feel like there's this balance of apprehension or maybe ambiguity. So there's like those kind of forces and then there's this counterweight of determination.

that I find to be beautiful about nonprofit in general, like just in nonprofit marketing and fundraising, the balancing ambiguity and apprehension with determination. we have, as fundraisers and marketers, moved from one pressing dilemma to the next this past year. the word of the year might as well have been funding in the nonprofit sector, right?

and all of the looming concerns from January to now around funding and shutdowns and emergency response and the weight of AI and postal rates and so on and so on. And so, you know, I, I shared with this group of, of leaders recently, a short story by Tolkien that I really have come to love. so the story is about an artist and he is,

hyperfixated on painting the perfect tree. His entire life, his whole purpose is to paint this perfect tree and he continues to work and rework and neighbors come about and he just gets so frustrated and can't take his eyes off of this tree and the work that he continues to do. And he never gets it perfect. And he felt like his value

Justin McCord (24:56.364)

was all about painting this perfect tree. And he passes on to the next life having not achieved perfection. And it's only in the next life that he learns the value wasn't about the tree and its perfection. It was about the process to get there and taking a step back and as Tolkien writes, seeing the beauty that you've created. so that reflection is incredibly important. And as I think about this related to

the path of the modern nonprofit leader, think it's twofold. One, it's the importance of not being trapped by that ambiguity and urgency that sits on one side, on one shoulder. Whether or not that's being trapped by the chase of the shiny object or being trapped by the weight of the circumstances beyond your control, and instead, taking a step back and thinking about the beauty that you've created, it's like taking a step back to reflect and adapt.

knowing how important your purpose is.

And really like what you said about, never, I've not heard that Tolkien story before and I love that. And it reminds me of, you know, it's just a common quote of don't let perfection get in the way of progress. And, you know, how are we just continuing to make steps forward and adapt. And really that's our fourth and final threads related to that topic about this resilience and adaptability and weathering change as a sector.

So our next two clips, we hear from Charles LaJosette, Senior Vice President and Head of Digital at RKD Group. So he talks about the importance of having a love of learning, not just in your career, but in applying what you're doing and how that can be a powerful tool for you. And then Jen Neumeyer, who's Senior Director of Digital Fundraising Strategy at PBS. She talks about how she...

Ronnie Richard (26:57.228)

led a digital transformation in a legacy organization by embracing change rather than resisting it and helping others to embrace that as well. here's Charles and Jen.

The love that's I feel like to be successful in digital, you have to have some love of learning. It doesn't mean you have to know all of it, know everything that's really impossible today. As digital has become so many different sub channels, love of learning, I think is how you stand out and how you'll continue to stand out, especially with AI, probably gunning for

of learning.

Jen Newmeyer (27:40.014)

all of our jobs. for the most part, far behind where we be from a digital funding point, which is why I'm on my soapbox all of the time. Because I think that for a lot of small nonprofits, it's a real struggle. If you have the talent to launch things and you have the skill, you have staff who have the skills and those are very big.

We're pretty fine if we need to be. Raising the stamp. one. Time.

Jen Newmeyer (27:56.462)

struggle to

Jen Newmeyer (28:00.75)

technology to

Jen Newmeyer (28:06.85)

you

elements that a lot of nonprofits don't have. leadership, not understanding the strategies and not allowing them, you know, really experiment and innovate. Or

they're either battling

Jen Newmeyer (28:20.543)

to

Jen Newmeyer (28:26.776)

for sort of those nonprofits that are a little bit more.

bit more on the larger end of the spectrum, there are collaboration issues. Now I'm with PBS, I work with organizations all across the country and there are a lot of silos. And I think that is probably for organizations who, legacy organizations who've been around for a while. And so I think that I'm seeing the tech stack

So right now, the is the country.

Jen Newmeyer (28:43.407)

typical organization.

Jen Newmeyer (28:50.648)

there what I'm seeing right now besides.

Jen Newmeyer (28:56.95)

And besides the skill on the ground, there's lot of issues with sort of MarCom development,

The real you the

of aberration elements that are so...

crucial for digital fundraising?

You know, I don't think it's a coincidence that Charles and Jen are talking about change and that they're both doing outstanding work in our field, in our sector. And so, you know, the pace of change, especially as it relates to digital channels, is so rapid. And it can be a struggle at times to keep up more channels, more tactics, more updates. It asks a lot of us.

Ronnie Richard (29:46.902)

And to tie back to the first thread more AI to throw that layer in there and how AI is just permeating through every digital channel in so many ways. So if you have these kind of bookend themes of AI and digital, you know, first and fourth, and then right in the middle are two threads that tie more to the human context. You've got relationships and being driven by purpose.

Look at that. We're even keeping humanity at the heart of our special little episode here, Ronnie. It's fantastic. so now we have a special little treat. So this is kind of like, I don't know, maybe this is kind of like when you get the crossover episode, like you referenced, there's the clips episodes, there's the holidays and so.

Got the outtakes, right?

Well yeah right there's there's a special moments and so. I was not expecting this and I'm rather impressed that you're able to pull this off that you actually have the actors that played both cagney and lacy joining come on.

I also have a special bonus. Mr. Belvedere is here as well.

Justin McCord (31:04.75)

I've been racking my brain of all of the other random like who's the boss? Benson like there's all sorts of great. Yeah. Anyway, listen we We promised at this at the start of the show that we would share our favorite moment of the year I don't want to spoil it or spill it as it were so I'll just say this

I spilled a bottle of Topo Chico while recording an episode of the podcast with Stacy from Six Degrees. so listen closely to see if you can hear the exact moment. I remember.

when I was really young going to like a Presbyterian Church and loving it right I was like Sunday school logos and

and

Stacy Huston (32:03.19)

Justin, you ready? Don't worry. Just just knocked over a topo. Don't worry. It reaching for a pin.

Justin McCord (32:12.76)

The f-

Justin McCord (32:19.266)

Listen, the spirit works, spirit moves. Right. Go ahead. Well, I wanted to get baptized. I think it was like eight.

Anyways, I liked it until.

Ronnie Richard (32:29.71)

Okay, uh, yeah, I'm just glad the bottle was empty there and that you didn't spill it all over your computer. Uh, just a good reminder. You never know what's going to happen when you hit record. We've, we've seen quite a bit in, I don't know, 120 plus episodes we've had now. We've had the spilled bottles, lawn mowers coming by. Uh, we had a guest whose kids started playing drums in the middle of an episode. Sure, we did.

Dogs barking of course, we've had it all

Yeah, we've we've really we've really seen quite a bit. It is kind of like quantum leap, like we've lived in these different these different character stories and timelines, right? But that said, it's been an amazing year on the Thinkers podcast and. And it's a chance for us today to celebrate that year with each other and alongside our listeners, and so we're ever thankful.

for those that tune in and continue to come back and try their best to keep up with the oddball references that sometimes enter the discourse. thank you for being a part of it. Ronnie, thank you for being a part of it. Not that you have a choice.

True. Thank you for being a friend. There's a reference.

Justin McCord (33:55.352)

You

And look, here's, golly, there may be just as much ambiguity in where we're as we enter 2026. so I am optimistic that both for the Thinkers podcast, but that more so in the work that we do every day, that we meet that ambiguity head on with determination. And that carries us into

even more stories in the year ahead. Thanks, everybody.

Group Thinkers is a production of RKD Group. For more information, including how you can partner with RKD to accelerate growth for your fundraising and nonprofit marketing needs, visit rkdgroup.com.