On this episode of the RKD Group: Thinkers podcast, hosts Justin McCord and Ronnie Richard sit down with fundraising veteran Kevin Gentry—CEO of TenX Strategies and host of the “Going Big!” podcast—to trace his unconventional path into nonprofit fundraising and unpack the lessons learned from raising over $3 billion. From his first nerve‑wracking major-gift ask to working alongside legends like Morton Blackwell, Mal Warwick, and Richard Viguerie, Kevin shows how mentorship, direct response strategies, and a willingness to take big risks can transform both campaigns and careers.
He shares:
- Serendipitous Starts: Most fundraisers “fall into” the sector—curiosity and openness can turn a chance opportunity into a lifelong mission.
- Mentors Matter: Learning from masters like Morton Blackwell, Mal Warwick, Bob Cialdini and Richard Viguerie accelerates your growth far beyond formal training.
- Direct Response Roots: One‑on‑one meetings remain the bedrock of effective fundraising—direct mail and video packages simply amplify that personal connection.
- Recognition Societies: Giving clubs and donor events create peak experiences that deepen loyalty and boost long‑term support.
- Risk & Scale: “Make no small plans”—embracing risk and thinking 10X larger is what turns good campaigns into game changers.
- Abundant Mindset: Shifting from scarcity to abundance unlocks creativity, innovation and the courage to pursue bold new ideas.
- Community Is Gold: Forging a network of principled fundraisers multiplies impact—peer learning and shared vision can solve society’s biggest challenges.
Show chapters
- 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
- 02:59 Kevin Gentry's Journey in Fundraising
- 06:02 The Importance of Risk in Fundraising
- 09:07 The Need for Training in Nonprofit Fundraising
- 11:58 Connecting Philanthropy with Meaning and Purpose
- 15:07 The Changing Landscape of Philanthropy
- 18:02 Direct Marketing Evolution and Its Impact
- 20:45 Mentorship and Learning in Fundraising
- 23:52 Successful Direct Mail Campaigns
- 27:12 The Power of Community in Fundraising
- 30:00 Building a Vision for Nonprofit Success
- 33:00 The Role of Risk-Taking in Nonprofit Leadership
- 35:49 Conclusion and Future Aspirations
Meet our guest
Transcript
Justin McCord
Welcome to the RKD Group: Thinkers podcast. I'm not laughing because of our guest. I'm laughing because Ronnie has now teased me into submission that I'm going to make noises near the microphone. So, for the listening audience, that's why I'm laughing. Welcome to the RKD Group: Thinkers podcast. I'm your host, Justin McCord. Sometimes I make noises. And with me is the noiseless Ronnie Richard.
Ronnie Richard
Perfect elocution.
Justin McCord
Yeah, thank you. So, Ronnie, we just wrapped this conversation with our guest, and I knew going into it that we were going to get some great stories. I knew that we would because our guest has been in the sector for a long time. He's a great storyteller in general. What I didn't realize is that I was going to walk away with a new perspective on him as almost in some way like the Paul Revere of leadership in nonprofit marketing and fundraising.
So, tell us about our guest.
Ronnie Richard
Yeah. Kevin Gentry, he's a, he's a seasoned fundraiser. He's got a podcast called the “Going Big!” podcast. And I'll come back to that in a second. He's the CEO of TenX Strategies, and he's raised over $3 billion for, in fundraising, for a variety of causes over a decades-long career. And like you were saying, this Paul Revere aspect of his ― he sees this need for going big, like the name of his podcast, but it's really, it's about taking risks. And we talk about this in the podcast where sometimes there's the scarcity mindset in our sector, with tight budgets and, and, you know, these, the, the way things have always been done, and it is … there's hesitation to take these big risks. And as he, you know, interviews people on his podcast, the most successful things that we see, whether it's a business or whether it's a campaign or whatever it is, it always involves taking an element of risk to reach that level of success.
Justin McCord
And, you know, the Paul Revere reference for me is that I, and we, deeply appreciate that he is on a mission right now with a thirst for sharing leadership examples. And the same way that iron sharpens iron, leadership can sharpen leadership and raise up new leaders. And, and so it's a fascinating conversation that goes through some of the annals of direct marketing and fundraising and, and even further back, some of the annals of line.
So that's a, that's a nice tease. So here is Kevin Gentry of TenX Strategies and the “Going Big!” podcast on the RKD Group: Thinkers podcast.
Kevin, I want to start with the figure 3 billion. And that figure is significant as a part of this conversation because, as a part of your bio, you have raised over $3 billion. And I'm, I would just love for you to unpack and kind of reflect on what that looks like and feels like as a part of your career.
Kevin Gentry
Well, cool. Well, thank you. I want to be clear. I've helped raise 3 billion. And also, you know, to be clear, it's very generous people who gave that, and really, at the end of the day, what role I had in it, I guess, could be questioned. And I don't want to be presumptuous with respect to this very generous giving partner that I was so key to it. But I've been involved in efforts that ultimately raised well over $3 billion a number of years.
But if I could, I'd like to start with three quick stories about getting to $3 billion. Let's do it. One was when I first fell into a fundraising role, a nonprofit fundraising. And I say “fell into,” I don't know anybody who didn't fall into a fundraising role because of the whole nature of the business.
I went to a training program that the Heritage Foundation was hosting, and I went to a session on how to do a major gift ask, and this British guy was giving the presentation, and he was very British, and he was pretty sure of himself, pretty self-confident, and he was talking about the ask, and I raised my hand and said, “I've gotta say, I don't see how I could even ask somebody for $500 because I can't even conceive of ever giving $500." And he said, “Well, maybe you don't belong in this room.” And so, okay, well, so that's sort of the context that laid into it. A couple of years passed, one of my first big asks, I went to a donor who had given as much as $2,000 through direct mail but was pretty consistent, gave a couple times during the year, and we were in a building campaign. This was my first big ask, and I was going to ask him for $50,000. And I had a colleague with me who had a great sense of humor, and I was very nervous about this, and I asked a donor for $50,000, and he was obviously pretty wealthy. We had this beautiful lunch in his office, but he reacted, he leaned back and he said, “$50,000. I've never been asked for $50,000 in my life.” And I was panicking, and my colleague said, “That's okay. Kevin's never asked for $50,000 either.”
So I say that to really lay a foundation of tremendous humility. And then I want to say sort of my, one of my next best steps, to just show all the brilliance that I had of this, is I was with a donor, and I ran into him. And I'd been working with him, and he said, you know, started talking, and he goes, “What are you looking for?” And I hadn't made any plans whatsoever to make an ask, but I had been sketching out on a piece of paper the plan that we were working on, and he was looking at it, and he said, “What are you looking for?” And I didn't have the courage to verbally say it. So I wrote $50,000 and perhaps it was an act of God or what have you, I didn't put a comma in, but I added an extra zero, and it became $500,000. And he looked at it and said, “I'll do it.” And I said, “You will?”
So again, I want to make clear that there's not some brilliance behind this, but I was really fortunate over the years to be involved with just some extraordinary people. I worked for nearly 30 years for the businessman Charles Koch and his family, and especially his efforts to engage a lot of other business leaders and philanthropists in efforts that he was working on, and I got to work with some phenomenal people, many of whom became mentors.
One of them, Rich DeVos, the co-founder of Amway, taught me so much. And really, in partnership with Rich and many others, I grew efforts that were raising, you know, $10 million, $15, maybe $20 million a year, ultimately to $200 million, $400 million, and that's how it grew.
I'd love to say it all originated in direct mail because I'm a big believer in the pipeline. But a lot of this actually started with just a lot of major gift occurrences, opportunities, which I can go into because a lot of it happened not only from what Rich DeVos taught, but what I learned from people like Mal Warwick, and Roger Craver and Richard Vigurie.
Ronnie Richard (08:35)
Good one. How did you get to that point?
Kevin Gentry (08:39)
Yeah, I, straight out of college, I started working for Morton Blackwell at the Leadership Institute. I think there were three or four employees then. I ran his training schools, and it became immediately apparent that, no matter how hard I worked, we were not going to grow substantially because we had a resource constraint. We just didn't have that much money to spend on things. So I, you know, as young, brash as, you know, Morton, I think I could raise money. I think I could do this. I think this would help us grow.
And he said, no. He said, because I'd have to train you how to fundraise, and I'd have to train your successor, and how to run the schools, and I don't have time to do that. But he relented and let me move into this role in fundraising.
Well, he was a tremendous mentor, which I can go into as well, but I had to get some training. And so, I went to this Heritage Foundation training, just, I've got to learn some stuff. By the way, what was enormously fortunate to me was I went to a training program that Mal Warwick did in Washington, D.C., and that's what was probably one of the most formative moments in my fundraising career.
Justin McCord (09:54)
Hmm. When did you … you also referenced that you fell into the sector ― and, by the way, we totally agree with you. It's rare. I think Tim Kirsten, our CEO, shared with you on your podcast that, you know, he was intent on, on getting into the sector because he had seen an ad from Russ Reed, the man, you know, for a position. And it's one of the many ways that Tim is a rare bird, that he had sought out this space as opposed to falling into it.
So, you fell into it. When did you feel like this was, this was going to be your thing?
Kevin Gentry (10:32)
Yeah, and by the way, with respect to Tim Kersten, you know, we worked together 30 years ago. When I was at the Leadership Institute, he wrote a package that was a breakthrough package and led to just transformational growth. So, I got to do a head tip to Tim.
You know, I think it's worth noting that still ― this has been the case for 40 years I've been involved in this stuff, and it's still a problem, maybe even more of a problem ― but no young person is given any expectation that they could be involved in a professional career and nonprofit fundraising, with some just rare exceptions. And my friend Tyler Cowen has also pointed out, he goes, you know, if you're going to change that, you got to make the role sound a lot more glamorous too because, particularly in direct response, who wants to go into that, right? There's so many negative biases about junk mail, so to speak, and everything else related to that.
But there may be, we'll say in college, higher education, an expectation about going into some nonprofit work, but it's mostly on the front lines of the work itself. Maybe it's in policy change or what have you. Possibly management. You could be trained even in accounting or other roles, marketing, although I question a lot of the marketing education that is offered to young people today. But there's nothing with respect to fundraising. You know, Indiana University has set a program for a while. You have a couple of little programs. So there's just nothing. So how would you even know you could do that professionally?
I fell into working at the leadership institute because I stupidly hadn't thought what was I going to do after college. It was kind of a fluke. I had a conversation with Morton Blackwell. He offered me the role, and I'm like, yeah, I'll take that because I didn't have any other plans. But it was in that role that I realized if we're going to grow, I wanted to do the fundraising, but I had no planning whatsoever I'd ever do that or continue doing it, frankly.
Ronnie Richard (12:42)
If you were thinking back to when you walked into that seminar and felt like you didn't know anything about fundraising and you think about what you were just talking about, these people coming in out of college and not having any training tools or, or expectations for fundraising in the nonprofit space, between when you walked in that seminar and now, and what you've learned, what was some of the things you would share with them? Just maybe it, just at a high level, some things you've learned about the fundraising space.
Kevin Gentry (13:18)
Yeah, well, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this as well. I think it's the most exciting field I know of. Because if you think about it, at the end of the day, a good cause is working on getting to the root causes of some of the biggest problems in our society. It could be related to education, it could be related to poverty, it could be related to criminal justice reform, it could be related to animal welfare, it could be related to cancer, whatever. These people are trying to get to the root causes, solve a big problem.
And then these wonderful people who have mostly, not exclusively, but mostly built a great business in their life, have developed the capacity to give generously as a result of what they've created, but they don't know exactly how to do it, what to do with it. You have these people who are doing these great causes, but they don't have the resources, and it's connecting the two. And when you connect those two in partnership, what I found ― and this took me a long time to find out, to discover, and it's really only in the past five to eight years that it really hit me, mostly because I'm a slow learner ― but it really hit me that many people can get a much greater sense of meaning and purpose in their lives and working with a partnership to solve a big problem than maybe even they did in creating a great business. I've met some wonderful philanthropists who told me, some before they passed away, that they got greater meaning out of their giving than they did out of the significant discovery they did in their industry.
Justin McCord (15:07)
Hmph.
Kevin Gentry (15:08)
That's powerful. I think it's that partnership. Yeah. I mean, it's huge, right? It is. It's a twofer: You get meaning, and then you're addressing a big problem.
Justin McCord (15:18)
You know, Ronnie and I both fell into it from some like but also a little bit different spaces, so he and I, actually, we crossed paths and worked together at the Dallas Morning News, he was on the editorial side, and I was on the marketing/advertising side.
So, he fell into it from really a, you know, journalism funnel. And then I fell into it ultimately from marketing and advertising and from sports franchises that I worked with. And so, there is something about that seed, whenever it cracks open, and then you feel that twofer, as you said, that punch, you know? It's so powerful.
I was looking as you were talking, we've got a person that joined our company recently. Entry level, she graduated from college in December, had spent time working in churches as an intern on, like, marketing and media; had spent time working with some ministries. And so, when she applied and got the job ― and she's a family friend ― she was so excited. And after a couple of weeks, this is what she sent me as a text: “I still don't feel like my job is real. Wow, I still don't feel like it's real. And after learning more and more about what I get to do, I just love it so much.”
And so, to your point, like, exposing the next generation of leaders to this important work, but also this fulfilling work, is, is crucial for us.
Kevin Gentry (17:00)
Right, but here's the challenge. Okay, first of all, we've heard a gazillion times, you know, follow your passion. Find your passion, find your gift, follow it. Great. A lot of us can't always do that. You know, what is our gift? What is our passion? You know? I'm still looking in some ways. I know many people in their 50s, 60s, 70s are still looking, right? And how does a 20-year-old, or an 18-year-old or 25-year-old know that?
And then, of course, you don't even know what you don't, I mean, you don't know what you don't know. And so it's sort of like a survey or a market test to say, what kind of product are you looking for? I don't know. I didn't know that that product existed. So how would you even know about this career if you don't know that it's there?
And so we can say, yay, look, I've come across this notion where you can find tremendous meaning and purpose by connecting your passion, your interests with this area. But still, it's a lot of unknown, and people just go with what they do know.
Ronnie Richard (18:02)
I, I've always thought it's unfair of us to ask an 18-year-old, when they're headed to college, to pick your major. Like, who knows what they want to do? And there are some people, I've always been blown away by people who are like, you know, ever since I was six years old, I've wanted to be a doctor. And I just, I don't understand it because I never knew what I wanted to be, even going to college.
Kevin, I wanted to shift course a little bit to ask you, you know, as we're, as we're in the philanthropy space right now, we're seeing a lot of change. We're seeing a lot of turbulence, but mostly I'm thinking like, over the last five years, the space is changing, and really fast. What, what is, what do you see? Like, what is your philosophy around philanthropy and fundraising, and where do you see us heading in the future?
Kevin Gentry (18:58)
Yeah, I think it's changing, and it's not, I mean, the whole world is changing. It's changing at an accelerating pace. And a lot of that's driven by, you know, new technological innovations. I mean, just think, you know, in our lifetime, just the past several decades, we can look at things and say, you know, things haven't changed that much. Our houses, everything looks kind of the same. But yet consider in communications technology, and artificial intelligence, health care, all these areas, it's just phenomenally different, right? And it's gonna be even more phenomenally different over time.
So we live in a dynamic world, thank goodness, and there's gonna be change. But with respect to giving, I do think we're learning a lot more, and we're able to exchange information much more quickly. And I, you see that in everything from ... linked into whatever. There's just a much richer exchange of information where we're learning what others are doing, which we just wouldn't have had that opportunity before.
But people still want to live a life of meaning and purpose, and they're trying to figure out how to do that most effectively. I think many people are finding that philanthropy is an effective vehicle to do that on the one hand. And I think many people are also seeing, look, I can be a social entrepreneur. I can do some great stuff. And if I can marry that together with the right financial resources to go big, this can be a big deal. I think that's where the moment is. I think that's where the opportunity is.
I do think philanthropy is going to change radically. But in a way, I want to say, I don't think it is changing as much. And here's my proposition. There's a lot to say, like, you, we're moving away from the sort of model of transactional fundraising to relational-engagement fundraising. Well, I don't think we're moving from that. It's always been the case. No one wants to engage in transactional fundraising. We use these terms like ‘hitting people up’ and ‘twisting their arm’ and just, it just doesn't work that way. Nobody … although that is in many ways the image that people have, but we know that the more someone is engaged in solving the problem directly, the more generous they're going to be. Of course.
And by the way, it's not going to be just generous with their treasure. It also is with their time and talent, too.
Justin McCord (21:35)
It's a great way to think about it. What would you say ― similar question, but about direct marketing specifically ― so. the evolution of direct marketing is now at, maybe, the most rapid pace that it's ever been in terms of how it's evolving. And how do you wrestle with that?
Kevin Gentry (21:56)
Yeah, and you know, I was fortunate to learn direct mail when I got involved in fundraising because, as I said, I went into a fundraising role with Morton Blackwell, who had worked for Richard Viguerie. And Richard Viguerie not only had mentored Morton on direct mail at the Viguerie company, but Richard brought in all these greats, you know, of the time, to come in from the professional world to teach the team at the Viguerie ATA company about direct mail, direct response. So I learned all these kinds of techniques at an early age. I'm a huge believer in direct mail and, broadly, direct response. But I think about it more strategically, and that is, look, the most effective means of asking someone for support or working with someone's support is a direct conversation, one-on-one. All right, there's some other related things, which maybe we can get into in terms of event dynamics, but that one-on-one is everything. And if you get a meeting, you have a pretty high likelihood of success if you do the basics.
But what limits that? Full time and related resources. The best major-gifts fundraiser in the world can't do but 200 or so real visits in a year. I mean, unless you're just going house to house. If you're a national organization, you have to travel, have to do all these things. You can do things, maybe, by video and stuff, but still, you can't do that.
So you've got to figure out a way to leverage it. And direct response is that. That's all it is. Direct response is leveraging that one-on-one meeting. And, however, you're utilizing continually innovations in communications and marketing …
Justin McCord (23:24)
Right, yeah.
Kevin Gentry (23:52)
… although the marketing principles stay pretty constant. That's how it works. And yeah, are people who respond to the mail, are they giving less and less because those tend to be older, and they're changing, or they're, well look, there’re always gonna be changes. But the concept, the strategy of direct response is merely leveraging the one-on-one.
Justin McCord (24:13)
Because you've had proximity and access to some of the legends of our craft and our field ― you mentioned Richard Viguerie, and Morton Blackwell and Mal Warwick ― and because you've had decades now of experience, what are some of the direct mail packages that live in lore in your mind? Like, what are some of the ones that either caught you off guard or that you still admire in terms of their effectiveness or potential?
Kevin Gentry (24:51)
Yeah, I'll tell a couple of quick stories about some of those. One was the package that Tim Kirsten was a part of. But I also want to stress some of these strategic lessons I learned, especially from Al Warwick. But I also learned some from Robert Cialdini, Bob Cialdini.
Now, you mentioned these greats, and things. I do want to say at the outset, I'm a big, big believer in mentors, in finding mentors, seeking them out, tackling them if necessary. I'm exaggerating. You know, it was Sir Isaac Newton who said, you know, I stand farther and I see further when I stand on the shoulders of giants. And I have learned also, as I've grown older, that I find more and more mentors who are younger than me, who are teaching me in other areas. You can have mentors in all different kinds of areas.
Bob Cialdini, by the way, and his techniques of persuasion, the psychology of persuasion ― years ago, when I was working at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, I worked with Tyler Cowen, a phenomenal economist, one the most important and influential economists in the world. He was our general director. And he said, “You know, with respect to all this marketing you're trying to do, have you ever read Bob Cialdini?” And I said, “No.”
I looked into it, read, was influenced. And my assistant at the time was just kind of curious because she heard me talking about it and reached out to Bob Cialdini and said, “Would you meet with my boss?” And he said, “Sure.”
And so, I had a meeting in Arizona. So, I went over to Tempe. He was teaching psychology at Arizona State. And we went to coffee at the Arizona Inn. And he told me then about what he was using with the hotel industry, testing about the rules of reciprocity and getting people and social proof to get people to reuse towels rather than have them washed every day. Phenomenal, all kinds of stuff. I learned so much from that that I could go back and apply.
And the same thing with Mal Warwick and others. I read a lot, I continue to read, I'm a slow learner, sometimes I have to read things 10, 15 times to really see it. I still go to a lot of conferences and training, but I cannot underscore enough the importance of mentors. And it just helps you apply the lessons and ask questions about the stuff that you encounter.
Now, with respect to that, I'll answer your question about a letter. I will say that when I was working with Morton Blackwell, everything that I've been taught in my English classes about writing, he was trying to, to disprove with respect to direct mail. I felt like I was a good writer. I wasn't, but he also made it clear I didn't understand how to communicate effectively and persuasively with people. I would get so angry when he would edit these letters with all this red ink and just say, it’s terrible. I like, you don't know what you're doing, but I learned so much from him. But I was still resistant.
And we did a letter on this new building. We're going to buy a building for the leadership institute. We're going to move out of the offices that we got, head in the National Right to Work Committee in Springfield, Virginia, and had this great new property in Clarendon and Arlington, Virginia, on the metro. It was going be a national training headquarters. But we were direct-mail based at the time. And so we wrote a letter, essentially, sort of, Morton laid out his vision, and it did well.
And then we tried having … at the time, Congressman Dick Armey signed the package, and at the time, he was very popular with conservative audiences, and the package did really well. It was the most effective package at the time for the Leadership Institute. And Richard Viguerie got the letter. He was on the House file, and he called Morton and said, “Hey, I saw this letter. It was interesting. How did it do?” And Morton said, “It's the best letter we've ever had.” And Richard said, “Well, you know the rule. Your prospect eyes your best house file or your house file eyes your best prospect. Are you going to try to prospect on it?” Morton said, “Wow, that's a great idea. I hadn't thought about that.”
He called me and said, “I just talked to Richard Viguerie. He thinks we should send the Dick Armey letters of prospects. I was like, “Morton, that's the dumbest idea. Why is anybody who gets a letter from Congressman Dick Armey about buying a new building for an organization they never heard of going to give to that? That just makes no sense.” And he goes, “Well, I think we should try it.”
I was like, there's enough to do. Why do we have to do this too? Well, it was a phenomenal breakout package. 60% of all the donors who came to the entire effort of that campaign came in on acquisition through that Dick Armey letter.
And then, of course, it was Tim Kersten's letter that he did with a video package that Stephen Klaus conceived of that really was the breakout that took things to an even higher level and really began to inform my sense of really what motivates people. And by the way, back to direct mail, direct response, the video packaging that Stephen Klaus pioneered was another breakthrough with respect to how to leverage the power of the individual meeting through direct response.
I'm sorry, the last thing I'll say is …
Justin McCord (30:19)
No, this is great, please. These are awesome.
Kevin Gentry (30:22)
… when I went to the Mal Warwick training, I just started in the role at fundraising, and a friend at the Heritage Foundation sent me a Mal Warwick brochure that he had found and said, “Hey, ha ha, you should go to Mal Warwick's training.” Mal Warwick was a progressive before we even used the term progressives. He'd been Ron Dellums’ finance chairman in Berkeley, California. Really, you know, some sort of causes on the political left.
And I looked at the brochure, and I was again desperate for training, and I was like, well, it doesn't say I can't go. I'm gonna go. And I went, and I learned so much about how then Greenpeace was sharing this case study about how they were making so much in prospecting, millions of packages, and they were calling every $100-plus new donor to thank them in order to boost retention. Phenomenal stuff.
I went to lot of Mal Warwick's training, but he taught me the power of giving clubs. And the argument was that, yes, that individual meeting is so important that you have with the donor, but consider a generous giver might have 40, or 50 or 80 of those kinds of meetings over the course of the year. And how do you really differentiate among all the others, other competitors will say?
But let's say that you have some kind of recognition society, a giving club, and your donor attends the event, physically attends the event, sees much more broadly what you're able to accomplish, meets many more of your staff, something that you could never accomplish in their office. And if you can make that an emotionally engaging experience, you're over the moon.
Well, that took, so I started testing that. I tested it through direct mail, did it through some political candidates and campaigns, saw the appeal of it, tested it at the Leadership Institute, tested it at the Mercatus Center, other places. It's great.
But it was the recognition that an idea that Charles Koch had had to host a seminar for business leaders, I'm like, wait a minute, the convening power of Charles Koch to invite business leaders is much greater than a nonprofit organization inviting its donors to come to a meeting. What if we essentially applied these rules to that?
And that's what was just incredibly transformative. And it became such that many, many people would come to a meeting like this, and it could be a peak moment for them, emotional, like, okay, I'm directly involved in solving a big societal problem. This is life-changing for me.
But again, this is grounded in elements of direct response. In fact, many of the people that we invited to these meetings started as direct-mail donors. So it all comes together.
Ronnie Richard (33:24)
Power of community, right? I mean, you're …
Kevin Gentry (33:27)
The power of community is the one you asked about the trends and things. I think the power of community is the greatest untapped resource that is still out there for us. And my big personal mission is to build a community of principled fundraisers. I think there's so much value that can be gained by that connection.
Justin McCord (33:48)
You're approaching the one-year anniversary of the launch of TenX Strategies, your newest endeavor, right? July will be one year for you.
Kevin Gentry (33:58)
Wow, you knew it better than I did. You're scaring me.
Justin McCord (34:04)
Ronnie, we've got a cake. We've got a cake. Ronnie, do you want to bring out the cake? So, you've got this new venture, and you've got a clear vision, and you've got a podcast that is just a rocket ship right now. In “Going Big!,” as we mentioned, Tim appeared on your podcast, and you've had some fascinating other guests, including Alexander Hamilton appeared on your podcast. Patrick Henry. Patrick Henry appeared.
Kevin Gentry (34:32)
Though on the 250th anniversary of his “Liberty Or Death” speech, yes.
Justin McCord (34:37)
Yeah. The, so, talk to us about the community that you are building through the combination of TenX Strategies and, and “Going Big!,” and, and now that you're, you're a fellow podcaster, what you're learning now.
Kevin Gentry (34:52)
Well, thank you. Well, I'm learning, mostly, that I don't know anything. There's still so much I don't know, or my preconceived notions are wrong. But thank you for asking and for noting that. I have believed for well over 25 years at least that we've got to address this gap. That there are these phenomenally good causes, and the number one constraint to their solving the problems, the number one constraint to growth ― because growth is key to solving problems, that's what we want to help them to do, right? ― the number one constraint is talent. And we've got to address this talent deficit in the manner that we laid out, because none of us even knew that there was a career opportunity here.
So I am determined to address that. I'm still trying to figure out how to do that. The podcast is one starting effort. And what I'm doing there, trying to do, is tap the power of thinking big. And there's so much about that. My friend Stephen Klaus made a point years ago to take me to Union Station in Washington, D.C. and show me the plaque with the famous quote, “Make no small plans. They have no ability to stir men's souls.”
And we know that Martin Luther King had a dream. Mahalia Jackson called out from the crowd when he was about to read his prepared remarks at the March on Washington, and he pushed it aside. Mahalia Jackson, the great singer, had heard him share his dream, and she said, “Tell them about the dream, Martin. Tell him about the dream.” You can hear her say that from the recording of that speech. He said that he shares his dream for a colorblind society in America for the world, and it's one the most consequential speeches of all times.
There are people we know, Dr. Sidney Farber, who, when approached by a group of philanthropists, and one of his colleagues said, “If I had access to additional resources, I'd buy another microscope,” Dr. Sidney Farber runs out of his office in 1947 at Boston Children's Hospital and said, “I'd find a cure for cancer.” And of course, the rest is history.
The Dana Farber Cancer Institute has just done extraordinary work. It is casting this big, bold vision. As we know in the Bible, the book of Proverbs, where there is no vision, the people perish. People are looking for leadership; people are looking for vision. I think if we can encourage more people to think big and go big, I think we're going to get to the root causes of more of the problems in society today.
Ronnie Richard (37:35)
There's a certain element about going big, and TenX, that's about taking risks. Maybe you've seen this too, but sometimes the mindset in our space is this mindset of scarcity, and we don't have enough resources. We don't know when, you know, how long our revenue is going to last. Budgets are tight. Is it a shift in mindset that's necessary to get to a place of abundance?
Kevin Gentry (38:02)
Big time. Well, I do think ― and Richard Viguerie has made this point, I raised this to Tim Kersten in our podcast, did he think, and he was very diplomatic and kind ― but I do think a lot of people drawn to the nonprofit sector tend to be more risk averse because it seems like it's, you know, the for-profit world, you know, it's kind of, it's kind of ... rough, and I'm not sure I want that level of stress in competition.
I think also, for a variety of reasons, leaders tend to be risk averse, and we've seen that in direct response, for sure. Why are more nonprofits not going big? I just don't know what's going to happen if I do this. But those who do, we've seen do big stuff.
But I got to tell you, what was transformative for me was, for a number of years, not only working with Charles Koch, one of the greatest business leaders of our time ― still not appreciated. I mean, to build a business that has over $125 billion in annual revenue and operating all over the world. Extraordinary growth, extraordinary growth; he has always thought big. And these other entrepreneurs that I ended up working with through that network of supporters, they were all risk takers.
And my favorite, there's so many great stories, but one of my favorite people I worked with was Art Ciocca. Art was the CEO of Coca-Cola Bottling of New York, and he had the Franzia Wine Group, and they were gonna sell Franzia. Actually, Art was head of that company. And they, because of the public earnings, the stock market and public earnings pressures, didn't feel like Franzia was making the mark, and they wanted to get rid of it.
He said, “Look, this is a damn good company. If you don't want it, I'll buy it.” And he said, you know, without really thinking through the consequences, decided to leverage himself into some friends, 26 to 1, to buy the Franzia wine group from Coca-Cola Bottling of New York and then quickly discovered afterwards that he would lose the price advantage they had because they had to deal with Corning Glass on the bottles for the wine.
And he was like, oh my gosh, I'm dead. What do I do? And so he, through a process of discovery, learned that in Australia, they were using the concept of sheep's bladders to use plastic bags that would keep milk fresh. And he said, could we do that with wine? He developed boxed wine out of necessity and created the number one wine brand in the world, Franzia, and that company is the second-biggest producer of wine by volume in the world.
Huge risks. And everything he told me, he, like, you know, he was banned from Safeway because, initially, the boxes leaked. There were so many times it failed. So many times he wanted to give in. All these people, these enormous success stories almost always go back to thinking big and risk taking. And if we can somehow marry that in the nonprofit sector, I think some of the biggest problems we face in society, I think they're at risk of being solved.
Justin McCord (41:27)
Kevin … Ronnie, I'm gonna speak on, on your behalf if that's okay? You kind of, you kind of don't get a choice. I'm gonna say it anyway. But like, we are, we are so appreciative of your thirst for solving that great chasm in our space. And there are not enough Kevin Gentry's and so …
Ronnie Richard (41:34)
I know what you're about to say.
Justin McCord (41:57)
… we want to just tell you, thank you, and echo your vision for the empowerment of leaders and of the abundance mindset. It's incredibly refreshing. And so, thank you for doing this work.
Kevin Gentry (42:15)
Thank you. And I'm just embarrassed, as you know, to my one-year anniversary, that I don't have more progress to show. I'm questioning myself. Have I taken enough risks? Have I thought big enough? But based on just this conversation, I think I'm to be back in touch with you all. And a lot of other people we know, there's a lot more to do. And I look forward to working with you all and anybody who's listening that believes in this. Let me know. Let's address this.
Look, let's just go back to the problems in society, whatever they may be. And there's so many, right? We're so depressed about the failing education in America. We continue to slip away. There are still too many people who struggle economically for a variety of reasons, you know? What is it, like, 60% of Americans have less than $1,000 in savings. You know, it's mind boggling. Many could just not afford a basic thing like a car repair that might happen or something like that.
And these drivers, whether it was prisoner reentry and criminal justice reform, or financial illiteracy or substance use and addiction, all these things that are holding people back, not to mention regulatory burdens, all these things, how can we address this stuff so that people are just in a position to lead a better life with their families?
So these problems are there; they can be solved. We know that there are people that are working to address them. So the proposition is, if they had more and better resources to do this, they'd be able to do it. And so, that's why people should go into this field, right? And if we all learn how to be better fundraisers, we're all gonna do better at solving these problems in society.
Justin McCord (44:06)
Good stuff, man. It's really good stuff. Thank you for hanging out with us today. And we're thrilled for the conversations to come and both to watch what you do and to be a part of it.
Kevin Gentry (44:19)
Well, thanks for the opportunity. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Ronnie. Thank you, Justin. Look forward to seeing you. Hopefully I'll see you at some direct marketing events soon.
Justin McCord (44:26)
Absolutely.
Group Thinkers is a production of RKD Group. For more information, including how you can partner with RKD to accelerate growth for your fundraising and nonprofit marketing needs, visit rkdgroup.com.
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