When play becomes a leadership strategy | RKD Group: Thinkers

Justin McCord (00:05.634)

Welcome to the... Have you ever noticed the smack? Have we ever talked about that, the smack?

Ronnie Richard (00:11.022)

don't know if we've talked about it on here, but I've noticed the smack.

edited out the smack.

Justin McCord (00:18.658)

Why? It's a good smack. Welcome to the Arcady Group smackin' thinkers. That's a whole different podcast. Welcome to the Arcady Group thinkers podcast. I'm your host Justin McCord with me is Ronnie Richard. Ronnie, what did you get in trouble for most in school?

Justin McCord (00:42.712)

Foo.

Ronnie Richard (00:44.174)

feel like I need to categorize them a little bit. I definitely talking too much in class, goofing off too much. there was a particular year, I think it was, fourth grade where I got straight A's across the board in my grades that we also graded effort, which was usually related to homework. And I got C's across the board and in effort. And then

They we had you for unsatisfactory instead of F, but like use across the board for behavior. So it's like a laundry list, I think.

Justin McCord (01:21.858)

Yeah. Yeah. Our, our guests, you know, shared this idea that, you know, maybe sometimes the things that you got in trouble with. Got in trouble for the most as a kid. Maybe those things are actually your superpowers and the things that make you really good, later in life. and so, and it, interestingly enough, I think mine was procrastination. think procrastination was the thing that would end up.

with me in trouble the most. And I do think maybe it's a superpower in a way. It can be painful for those around me at times.

Ronnie Richard (02:04.3)

It was one of mine as well, but it worked out in journalism when you had to cram and get that thing in by deadline.

(02:11.47)

Yeah, yeah. So tell us tell us a little bit more about Gare Bear.

Ronnie Richard (02:16.152)

Garbarri, yes, our guest today is Gary Ware. He's the founder of Breakthrough Play and author of the book, Playful Rebellion, Maximize Workplace Success Through the Power of Play. So obviously his theme is all around being playful and finding ways to incorporate that to kind of counterbalance this workplace culture of, you know, go, go, go, know, stressfulness. And really I just

He was just like a bundle of joy to talk to. he just, there's a certain energy around Gary that is infectious, I think.

Justin McCord (02:55.726)

Yeah, mean, bundle of joy and and infectious, not overwhelming. No, not at all. And, you know, even the idea and you're going to hear him unpack this story. I love that he convinced a boss to fund him.

taking an improv class as professional development. And like he will walk through with you that journey and why that makes sense. And obviously how it turned into a whole career for him. So Gary is someone who is doing incredibly creative work. He's being honored and recognized by places like Culture Amp as leaders in the future of work. And so an absolute delight to talk to Gary on the podcast today.

Here is Gary Ware on Group Thinkers.

Gary, my first question out of the gate is, what's your nickname? Like, what do your friends call you? Does everyone call you Gary? Is there something else that people call

Gary Ware (04:05.102)

So funny story with that. So Gary is a short name to begin with and my nickname is my full name. A lot of folks and it's so interesting. A lot of folks just call me my full name Gary Ware and it's just. And they say it as if it's like one syllable. But so that's one nickname that folks or or they'll say Gware, which is very interesting. Or this is something and it's so interesting because.

Like I've had folks of different sort of circles randomly. Someone will call me a gear bear. I'm like, OK.

Justin McCord (04:42.19)

Yeah, I like that. Okay, see, I was thinking like G dub, like, he goes like a very natural area, but dare bear is balance fun. Yeah.

Gary Ware (04:48.174)

Yep, G-dub is one.

Ronnie Richard (04:54.232)

thinking about care bears and I'm wondering what is on your belly if you're a care bear.

Gary Ware (04:59.234)

Yeah, yeah. If I was so I hold on I have it.

Justin McCord (05:05.363)

this whole thing? And Gary Weir

Ronnie Richard (05:08.718)

He has a care bearer to our listeners who can't see that.

Gary Ware (05:13.482)

It is the one I think is Wish Bear. It has the star with the shooting star.

Justin McCord (05:20.686)

Okay, so how did Wish Bear come into your life? Is that a gift from a kid? Is that something that you saw? Is there a symbolism behind it? Tell us about Wish Bear.

Gary Ware (05:34.466)

Well, one to the point, like, Gare Bear, Care Bear, like, it's always the thing. And growing up, me my family, we were the were bears. It was like a thing. And so there was always that connection to Care Bear. And this one actually came from my sister. And she just thinks that I just have good luck. And so it's not like good luck bear, but it's like sort of like it's wish bear. Like, just sort of happen. And so, yeah.

Justin McCord (06:00.526)

That's remarkable. Mark and it's a little bit of a, it's actually a brilliant introduction for, for you and, who you are and, the joy that you bring, to the spaces that you encounter. So for the listeners, here's how I met Gary. Gary and I have a mutual friend that, every so often, I don't even know how often he does it, but every so often he

puts together a group of 59 individuals, because he makes number 60. And it's 59 individuals. And it's a one hour meeting. And every person on that call has one minute to share either something that they're working on, something that's bringing them joy, something that is new or different, something that they're excited about.

And the first time that I was invited into this circle, Gary, you stood out, man. You just brought like this spark and it made me think, I wanna know that guy. I wanna spend time around that guy. And then I started to learn a little bit about breakthrough play. And so what I want you to share with our audience is how did you

get to the place of breakthrough play? Like what's the path to getting to taking a step out in creativity like this?

Gary Ware (07:32.45)

Well, I guess sometimes it's desperation. Or if you would ask people that really know me, they was like, no, you were just being stubborn. You were meant to do this, but you weren't taking all the clues that was happening and the universe had to just smack you in the face. So my background, and this is how Ryan and I know each other, my background is in marketing and communication. So I always thought I was just going to be a marketer for life. I went to school for marketing.

And I inspired to be like a madman sort of thing, except for digital marketing. It's Don Draper of digital marketing. And I did that. I succeeded. I worked at lot of large agencies, worked on a lot of awesome brands. That's how I met Ryan Berman. We worked together. And then back in 2014, I got the opportunity to be a co-founder at a digital marketing shop.

Matter of fact, Ryan was the one who sort of nudged me in that direction. Like, yeah, yeah, you should do that. This is, you know, I, I was a little bit hesitant on taking that leap. but they're like, no, no, no, this is, this is something that you should do. So the, what I thought was we wanted to change the way that agency life works because, know, it, tends to burn folks out. you know, especially, you know, when you work with a lot of large, you know, clients, you know, they, they feel entitled, yada, yada, yada. And so I was like, all right, cool. I want to.

be in this space to sort of transform how this works. And I thought I was on board with my business partners. And in the beginning, it was that. It was like this honeymoon thing. We had an office, a stone's throw from the beach. We were very intentional about doing our motto was do good, great. So we wanted to do good work by our clients. And it was just all about intentionality.

The rookie mistake on my part was not really understanding the character of the folks that I was going into business with. It's not like these random folks just sort of like, hey, you want to, you know, I thought I knew them. You know, we were all part of the advertising federation, the young, the young professionals group. But when, you, when I like to say when you're under fire, your character, your true character comes, you know, it shows up.

Justin McCord (09:53.166)

That so true.

Gary Ware (09:54.418)

And so, but while I was, you know, know, co-founder, my job was working on client, our client experience and our team development. So I was, you know, all about creating good culture, all about helping our teams grow professionally. And so all the things that I'm doing now, I was, it was a small fraction of what I did then. And that's where I, you know, was starting to incorporate what is called applied improvisation.

So improv skills, so skills that improvisers use to be able to collaborate on stage without a script. How does that work in other contexts? So my agency was like a little sandbox and I loved it. I was known as the play guy. I would go to conferences and I would do all these things. Long story short, this now fast forward to 2018. At this point, I'm a dad now. My son's about to be one. I find myself in Nicaragua.

for my birthday, I was leading this retreat where it was a service slash adventure retreat. Where we did the service project where I was leading this improv workshop for this charter school. And we did some training for a hostel there. And then we did a lot of fun stuff. Anyways, I come back on December 10th, my normal check in with my business partner. And in that moment, he buys me out and he's like, I think we should go our separate ways.

Three months before that, he had pushed out our other business partner. So he, at that point when he bought me out, he owned 90 % of the agency. So he had, you know, essentially to do whatever he wants. And so when it rains, pours. That same day, two hours after that meeting, I kid you not, our landlord called me and my wife and said we had about 60 days to move because he's selling the property that we were living

Justin McCord (11:51.107)

Wow.

Gary Ware (11:52.142)

And my wife stayed home mom. My son was about to be one and I guess I Could have like, you know at this point like I you know, I know some folks You know, I could have made some phone calls and maybe got another another gig But I think there was if I was being honest with myself a little bit of shame of like man I stepped out to start this agency and now look, you know, I'm coming with my tail between my legs

So I didn't necessarily want to do that. But again, as I told you a moment ago, folks were like, no, you were meant to do this, Gary. I don't know why you weren't doing this, why you, you know, you didn't do something like this suitor. And so the universe like, like, no, we'll give him, you know, we'll smack him in the face. And so what ended up happening was me and my wife, moved in with my parents. My parents live here in San Diego, where we live. And and my wife was the one who suggested maybe you should do something with

this play and this this sort of team building stuff. Maybe you can get paid doing that. And then I said, all right, I'll look, you know, yes, I'm going to explore that two years. If I don't figure it out in two years. I'll just go find another job. And so that was the start. That was the catalyst that led us to where we are now.

Justin McCord (13:08.078)

Like you said, out of the fire.

Right? Yeah. Like out of the fire, something beautiful.

Gary Ware (13:15.598)

Yes, exactly. It's like a diamond. You got that pressure. Yeah.

Ronnie Richard (13:22.168)

So take us through those early days. It's 2018. You're saying, me go for this. Let me take these two years and try to make it work. Did they go through a few iterations? Did it take you some time to kind of find your groove of how you wanted to build this and structure it?

Gary Ware (13:39.054)

Yeah. And so what I did first was I had a sort of inkling of how I wanted this to do as far because my main thing was I wanted to do professional development slightly different because I again, being on various sides of the coin, know, in-house or agency and having been part of professional development is usually a checkbox. Like, you know, in that moment we're going through, there's a trainer and we're cramming information and then, you know, maybe there's a certification, you get a certificate.

But do you actually transform? Is there transformation? Are you actually using the things that you just learned? I can attest, no. We went through all that just so we can say we did it, check box, we move on. And so I had this concept and I called it a complementary recess. It was a 45 minute program and I reached out to all the people in my network and I let them know these are the new things I'm doing and I would like to just offer it to their team just to get feedback.

Am I off on this? Is this something that will be beneficial? so this was, I did it in person. did like over two dozen of them. And the only ask was, hey, can I get a testimonial? And if you see an opportunity for us to work together or someone who could use this, would you just give me a shot? That was the only thing. And so with that was, I got a lot of feedback.

But it was validation like yes, this is something that is that is really special and that was the thing that Got me going now How I was thinking about scale. How do I how do I start to reach to our folks because San Diego is a small market? Yeah, you know, but what else and so the thing that I start to realized was conferences Conferences are looking for programming especially programming that is

a little bit unconventional, something that is going to keep people engaged. And I was like, if I go to conferences and I demo some of this in conferences, then people would go back and like, hey, we did this thing. We need to bring this guy in. And so that was like, that was my thing. I started, that was the thing that started to, you know, take, you know, it started to take off with that. But the two year mark, if you're doing your math right, the two year mark is in 2020.

Gary Ware (16:06.12)

And March of 2020.

speaker-0 (16:08.386)

Did anything happen then?

Gary Ware (16:10.318)

year. Yeah, I know, We might have amnesia or something. But I was like, in January 2020, I was like, this is going to be my year. I was like, this is going to be my year. Because I had more things booked than I've ever had booked before. Matter of fact, me and a colleague of mine, we had this program that we were running, and it was titled How to Deal with A-holes at Work Using Play. And we got booked at a whole bunch of conferences to do that program.

And one of the places that we got booked at was in Melbourne, Australia, at this conference called PawsFest. And it was in February of 2020. me and my son and my wife, we go out there. I have to say it was one of the best vacations we've had in long time. I ran this program. And it was sort of reminiscent of when I was in Nicaragua. Because when I was in Nicaragua, I had this epiphany moment of like, wow, things are going good.

Like I have this job that's given me autonomy that has allowed me to do this good work. I was literally in Nicaragua thinking the same thing. And guess what? I come back and then the world just turned upside down where all of the bookings slowly just went away because everything shut down because of the pandemic. And I was challenged again to like reinvent myself. And what I did that

Like, again, I had an inkling. I was like, well, I have nothing going on. So could I make this work in virtual?

And at the time everyone was shuttering in place, a lot of folks were burnt out. so I didn't even, again, going back to what I did in 2018, I wasn't even charging. I had this weekly virtual session where I was just trying out material in a virtual space. And I said, come, you know, this is chance to sort of like get your mind off of what's going on in the world, pay what you can or whatnot or not. Like, I just want to try out some of this material. And, and I burnt myself out because

Gary Ware (18:17.998)

I be very optimistic like, this is gonna be over by summertime.

And we know how that went. But it did give me an opportunity to do some really transformative stuff. I partnered with a friend and we did this intergenerational program and we ended up doing a thing where we, and we couldn't have, we only could have done this in the capacity that we did. We paired up children in Nigeria with elders in the Bay Area and we did this really cool applied improvisation workshop with them where they were just.

doing these activities in a virtual space together. And then we did like a little fun little showcase all online. yeah, so was in experimentation mode again.

Justin McCord (19:04.302)

What? Okay, so where did the improv connection come in? Like, had you taken improv classes? Was it just something that you were interested in?

Gary Ware (19:15.16)

So it's so funny. It became the thing that was like my like, like, my God, this is amazing. I took it as a way to get better at public speaking. So early in my career, I knew that public speaking is important, but I had crazy stage fright and I hated Toastmasters. I needed something else that was going to help me get better at public speaking. And a mentor of mine said, why don't you take an improv class?

I only knew improv as in whose line is it anyway, but I was like, I don't know how this is going to help me, but sure, why not? And so I took the class and the company that I worked for at the time had this thousand dollar a year stipend for anything professional development. And I convinced them to pay for my $200 improv class because I went to get better at public speaking and they did. I was like, I didn't know what to expect because I hadn't up until that point, I've never taken improv class.

But for two hours, I didn't think about anything that was going on. I was completely present. And I was among these people that I didn't, it was the first time we all met. But by the end of that first class, you had thought that we were friends for years. Matter of fact, I'm still very close to a number of the folks that I was in that cohort with my very first improv class. And that was over 15 years ago. But that was the thing that became like my hobby.

But it was my way of just rejuvenating myself. My improv classes were on Mondays, Sunday. Most people have the Sunday scaries. I was excited because improv. And it wasn't until years later where I started learning about the neuroscience of all this stuff. When you have something that you're looking forward to, it makes everything else better. And for two hours, again, it was just my stepping away from the work. But I guess the work is still going on, right? The things that you're like,

that you're pondering is still happening in your brain. But, you know, we're very bad. Us humans are very bad at taking breaks and stuff like that. So that was my fourth break. But it was just so much fun. It was so much joy. I remember after my first improv class, I was nervous. I was nervous to do. I didn't know what to expect. And when I came home at this big grin on my face and my wife thought I was drunk. And isn't that funny that we think that there has to be some sort of substance or something that makes us adults happy? It couldn't just be

Gary Ware (21:40.462)

It's something that's just pure joy.

Justin McCord (21:44.098)

Just the, you know, it makes me think about years ago, I remember being at a conference that was for nonprofit leaders and it was in Chicago and they had some of the folks from Second City do a couple of professional development sessions. And like you, my exposure to improv starts with whose line? And even today, like as you said that, I thought to myself, you know,

I kind of want to go back and watch some of the old, the original versions. Like, yes, the Drew Carey versions are great, but like give me, give me original Ryan Stiles. Yeah. you know, way, way back. so there's so many applicable ideas from improv that go into the professional life. I hadn't considered public speaking as one of them.

Like from the agency side, know, yes and is a great model for how you serve your client and how you approach conflict and how you address those things. But I hadn't ever considered the public speaking side. That's fascinating. How soon was it before you felt like the lessons that you were learning were changing your behavior and changing the way that you thought about public speaking? What was that journey?

Gary Ware (23:06.658)

Yeah, it took a little bit, but the interesting thing is because it was fun and playful, I immediately wanted to do these activities with my team. I started to see some of the connections and I, that point, I was a newer leader and I was always looking for things that I can do with my team, you know, to just help us bond. And so I would bring these games, these games that we did in improv class, I would bring them and we would do them before meetings. I, you know, we did them on Fridays, like while we're just sort of sitting around the watering hole and stuff like that.

And then, but this is where there's a lot of research now that shows that continuous work in this space will help you with the ability to not only think on your feet, but to not have this fear of the unknown. Because all of these activities are completely random. Yes, we might have done it before, but it is made up on the spot. Like how you do it this one time is not, you're never gonna do it like that again. And so it starts to change your brain chemistry. You start to create new synapses in your brain

new neural pathways, and you will start to realize that, wow, I do trust myself if something happens. I am capable of recovering and rebounding because in these low stakes environments, I did that. Like if you think about when folks have allergies and they want to help you get rid of it, they give you this low dose of whatever the allergen is and then with hopes that you develop, you your body developed some sort of immunity to it.

And that's essentially what happens with our sort of, you know, thinking on our feet and that fear of the unknown. But yeah, within a quarter, my team was cooking. Like we were in, again, I didn't know what I know now. I just, it's like, wow, we're just a high performing team. Yes, we were, but we had, like we had the reps. I call it the brain gym. You know, you go to the regular gym to get, you know, abs and.

and whatnot. This was making our brain stronger and as a result was helping us connect better.

Justin McCord (25:11.374)

That's awesome.

Ronnie Richard (25:12.61)

Gary, you've mentioned a couple of times the term burnout and you're talking about how this is a refresher, a rejuvenator to be able to play. We work in the nonprofit space where burnout is a very common thing. Not only the sheer amount of work that nonprofit professionals have to do, but also they tend to carry the weight of the mission that they're working on.

We see it so much. you like, what advice would you give to nonprofit leaders based on what you've seen and what you've learned in the work you've done?

Gary Ware (25:52.406)

Oftentimes we feel like rest and play is something that we have to earn. We often look at our productivity as part of our self-worth. And at the end of the day, if you burn yourself out, how good are you gonna be to the mission? Can we reframe that thing called rest and play and look at it through the lens of, instead of earning play,

Earning rest. We work from a place of rest, not work to rest. Now it takes like a sort of flipping things on his head. We're conditioned. You know, if you think of the Protestant work ethic and stuff like that, we're conditioned to work, work, work, work, work, work, because the old belief was if you weren't working, you're probably going to do something not good. then again, if you think about these nonprofit professionals,

Ronnie Richard (26:45.326)

middle hands.

Gary Ware (26:50.882)

They have a big mission. have a lot that they're trying to do. But if you are burnt out, if your cup is not full, how can you pour from it?

Justin McCord (27:04.878)

Yeah, yeah, it's How can you legitimately address the needs of those around you, right, if you're empty?

Gary Ware (27:16.77)

Now from a scientific... Yep, exactly. you. Yeah, before you can serve others, you need to put on your own mask. But here's another thing from a scientific sample. so like all that, you're like, that's nice, Gary. But guess what? The science shows that when we are not fully rested, fully rejuvenated, we don't make choices that are intelligent, that are going to be ones that are going to help us in the long run. We think we do, but us humans, we're bad judge of our ability to do stuff. I know...

Ronnie Richard (27:17.848)

mask first right?

Gary Ware (27:46.232)

plenty of times, I'm just like, you know what, let me just go one more hour. Let me just go, like, you know, I know I'm tired, but like, let me just power through. We're more prone to making mistakes and making decisions that are not good when we come from a place of rest. But yeah, we do it.

Justin McCord (28:03.726)

You use the word reframe and I think it's an important element. may be the, I don't know what the symbol is for reframe, but that may be what's on Gare Bear's belly is the idea of reframing. Whatever the emoji is.

Gary Ware (28:22.548)

Whatever you're voting for, reframing.

Justin McCord (28:24.91)

so, but your, so your book, playful rebellion, it reframes rebellion as something, you know, working against conventional workplace norms. so, Gary, I consider myself to be, a zagger and, and so a bit of a nonconformist and, and I, I love the idea of if everyone is doing one thing, I want to do the other. I love that.

Ronnie richard (28:30.146)

Yes.

Justin McCord (28:55.626)

It's, I've done that so many times and made Ronnie very, very frustrated and or very uncomfortable. but, like, unpack, unpack, playful rebellion. it's, such a, it's, it's easy to grab ahold of, of that as a, as a great quip, but like, what does it mean in practicality?

Gary Ware (29:20.794)

Yeah, so going back on this journey, at first I thought improv improv is the thing we all need improv, which is true. We all it is great. But when I unpacked what we were doing, we're essentially playing. It was just pure play. And if you think about play in its essence, it's doing something that brings you joy for the sake of doing it. And when you're in a play like state, a lot of magical things happen. You connect on a deeper level with people. You're able to be more creative. All these things. However, play.

has this stigma that it's juvenile. Play has this stigma that is goofing off. And when I was looking at what makes high performing teams, the research is very clear. There's this book called Prime to Perform, and it looked at all these high performing teams. it was high performing teams, they optimize for three things, play, purpose, and potential. Play means you see the work as play. You do it for the sake of doing it. It's all intrinsic stuff.

What is the impact of the work that you're doing and the potential? What is your potential to grow to self actualize? So if you can optimize for those three things, you will get teams that will be able to think on their feet that will be able to go the extra mile. However, most of the world they optimize for extrinsic motivators and that is economic pressure, emotional pressure and inertia. So economic pressure is, hey, you better do this or we're going to dock your pay.

Or you perform very well, we'll give you a bonus. Emotional pressure, you made a mistake? let's shame you to not doing that again. Or inertia, we've always done it this way, no questions asked. Again, that is great if you work in a factory and you need repeatable work, but you are not going to get creative work there because you are taking essentially the drive away from folks because you're optimizing for things outside of the work itself.

So play being one of those things and I really can't place a thing. And I was going around like, you and I still like, if you look up all the stuff I do, I'm a champion for play. Most people were like, no, sorry, sorry. What you want us to pay you what to do what? And then I started to realize it's our conditioning. It is our conditioning to think one play is juvenile. Play does not have a place in work. But there's a really great quote that the opposite of play isn't work.

Gary Ware (31:47.33)

The opposite of play is depression. And most adults are suffering from a thing called play deprivation in that we are not, you know, we are seeing the world as a proving ground and we are overworking ourselves and we don't give ourselves a chance to play. Now play can take so many different forms. And so that's why I started diving into this and I realized play is very complex and there's so many different layers to play. And that's why I call it the, you know, the playful rebellion in that in order to get us to

really see play the way that it needs to be, we need to have a rebellion. And is the rebellion against the status quo of work? And so it doesn't mean that we need to rebel against work. No, we need to rebel against how we have been doing work because in my opinion, the way that we are working is no longer working.

Ronnie Richard (32:36.514)

So Gary, as somebody whose work is play when you're not working, is your play? How do you get away from to relax and recharge?

Gary Ware (32:47.682)

So funny. So I was talking to my therapist recently and my therapist asked me like point blank. Gary, do you have a hobby? And I said, yeah, you have a hobby. Improv. They like, but that's your work now. True. OK. And I still I still teach and I still perform. was like, all right, valid, valid point. And then I was like, Lego. So like, I love Lego. It's like I have loose Legos all around. You know, I love building with my kids. And also my therapist said, well, if I've been listening correctly.

Don't you also use Lego in your work? was like, valid. OK. And so then I was this was recently this was as like two months ago recently. And then I was like, was like, man, I man talk about like a gut punch. I like, do I not have a hobby? It's so so I'm like, what is my hobby? Like, because again, to have something that brings you joy that you would do just for the sake of doing it, you know,

Again, I still look at improv and Lego as those things, but valid. Like, what are some other things? And so the stuff that I turn to, there's a gentleman's name is Dr. Stuart Brown. He wrote this amazing book on play and how play shapes our minds and whatnot. And he says there are different play archetypes, play personalities. And it ranges everything from the joker to the competitor to the storyteller, to the artist, to the collector. And two of my dominant, well,

I have three dominant play personality ones to Joker. I'm a, I'm I'm a big goofball, but I'm also a collector and, I like an artist creator. Those are the things that I like. And so I was like, all right, how can I tap into something new that is down with those play personalities? And as luck would have it again, the universe sometimes just show up when you just put something out there. two weeks after that was Christmas. And for Christmas, my wife gave me a 3d printer.

She was tired of me complaining that I wanted one and not doing anything about it. So she just bought me a 3D printer. And that has been my obsession since Christmas. And I will tell you, it's just been something that I do that brings me a lot of joy because again, collecting, I love collecting things. So now I have all these like little things that I've 3D printed, but I love creating things and I've created all kinds of things, but I also love giving gifts.

Gary Ware (35:13.71)

And so it's allowed me to connect with people on a whole other level because, um, you know, I love surprising folks. so, um, I was meeting with some folks recently that I hadn't seen in a long time. And then I brought them, um, uh, matter of fact, I have them right here at these like little fidget toys that I made. They look like little poker chips and they're, um, you know, just little fidgets and I gave them away and that you should stall their face. They turned it to little kids just playing with those. And so it has been something.

I will tell you this, because I have been sort of consuming that, I have not been doom scrolling. I found that I have been spending less time on social media because I've had other things that is bringing me joy and I don't have the space for that other stuff. So anyways, that's a long winded answer to say what kind of play that I'm currently doing.

Justin McCord (36:05.538)

mean, Ronnie, you nailed it on the question, Like, absolutely nailed it, you know? We didn't know that you were hobbyless up until, you know, just recently, that you're months into a new hobby.

Gary Ware (36:20.11)

meant into a new hobby. Matter of fact, I have a challenge too. I bet he's so funny. I have this challenge that I've been doing 3D printing something new every day for 30 days as a way to just, you know, one, keep doing it, but two, like explore different things. And I just finished a challenge and the thing that I printed that is like.

So amazing. And so for the folks listening, I'm going to describe it to you. But this is a Lego Batman that is fully movable that I 3D printed on my 3D printer. The whole thing, this Lego Batman. So I'm holding in my hands. It looks like a little mini fig, but it is a Lego Batman that is over a foot tall.

Justin McCord (37:05.902)

He did the whole thing.

Gary Ware (37:16.192)

and this boy's thick. And its limbs and whatnot move. And it was the finale of my 30 day 3D printing challenge.

Justin McCord (37:28.408)

That is awesome.

Justin McCord (37:29.57)

That's brilliant. That is so cool. Gary, man, we're, our audience doesn't get the benefit of this, but we're so excited. We're going to spend some time together in the next couple of months in person. And, and so I can't wait for that time. And, and to,

to just be face to face and to yes and even more with one another. Last kind of question that I wanted to get your thoughts around. When you live in the agency space, awards mean quite a bit. Awards become like a proof point of success. They become a driver of new business. They become something that,

They take on a lot more weight than they maybe should, but there's still value. There's still merit in that level of recognition. As a solopreneur, you were recently recognized with something that is incredibly cool. And I just want to know what you think about it. You were named one of the top 25 emerging culture creators by Culture Amp. Like, how did, how does that hit you?

Gary Ware (38:47.298)

Yes.

Gary Ware (38:51.722)

It was a surprise to be honest. And it was very validating considering I complete like 180 career pivot and to show the hard work that I've done like over the last like eight years is shining. And I think I'm all about sharing the knowledge. I'm not one to gatekeep anything. So anything that I learned, know, I...

It's funny that I was talking to a coach one day and they said, you know, the things that you got in trouble for in school, that's your superpower. You just didn't know how to harness it. You probably need that. And so when I was young going to school, I the teachers didn't know what to do with me because I was always sharing stuff like anytime I was like, hey, did you know this? You know, it's I very talkative and whatnot. And so that's still me to this day. If I learned something, I'm like, hey, you know, X, Y and Z. And so.

to show that all the stuff that I was learning as I was growing in this new career thing, people found it valuable. And then to get recognized by Culture Amp, yeah, that was a big honor. And yeah.

Justin McCord (39:59.534)

So, so cool. Gary Ware, you're the real deal, We appreciate you walking us through your journey and can't wait to experience your work together and continue to amplify it. So thanks for hanging out with us.

Gary Ware (40:13.708)

My pleasure. This was such a delight.

Group Thinkers is a production of RKD Group. For more information, including how you can partner with RKD to accelerate growth for your fundraising and nonprofit marketing needs, visit rkdgroup.com.