‘Superfans’ and storytelling: What nonprofits can learn from Brittany Hodak | RKD Group: Thinkers

Justin McCord (00:04.93)

Welcome to the RKD Group Thinkers podcast. I'm your host, Justin McCord. Why are you smirking, Ronnie Richard?

Ronnie Richard (00:12.274)

I debated whether I should try and start talking at the same time as you and then I I held

Justin McCord (00:17.262)

then to head back here we go here we go. Here we go. Yeah, here we go. w hold hold on. We weren't recording when we did that.

Ronnie Richard (00:26.67)

That's correct. We talked about that ahead of time.

Justin McCord (00:29.504)

Yeah. So here's how this went down for the audience. Ronnie let our guest into the studio. And as the guest came into the studio, they initiated the conversation with us with a greeting. And so they said hello. And then Ronnie and I in unison said hello.

Ronnie Richard (00:55.169)

hello.

Justin McCord (00:56.78)

Yeah, that didn't work at all. No. And it was really awkward and felt like, you know, we were just doing synchronized speech. So that's where that comes from. Ronnie, why don't you pull the curtain back and share who our guest was that prompted us to speak in synchrony?

Ronnie Richard (01:18.84)

Sure, sure. our guest today was Brittany Hodak. And we got to know Britney a little bit at an event we had a few weeks ago where she spoke to some of the nonprofits that we work with, and she has a really unique perspective. Britney's a speaker, she's an author of a book called Creating Super Fans. She's co-founder of her own company, the Superfan Company. She's worked with brands like

Walmart, Disney, Amazon. In the episode, you'll hear her talk about working with different musicians and everything. So she she has a unique perspective, and it's it's in that title, superfan, on how to build connections with the your followers and how to move them from just being followers to super fans. And and it all revolves around creating experiences and memories and all these things, and it's so

Me so critical to nonprofits right now in the moment we find ourselves.

Justin McCord (02:23.202)

Totally. I Ronnie, I went recently to a gala for a nonprofit that my family supports. And they do a brilliant job of once a year when they have this annual gala, they have the entertainer who's performing at the gala actually go on site to one of their campuses where they deliver programs and have

That person engage with the kids that this organization serves. And it was so interesting. So the talent at this event was actually Hankezaria. I don't know if you know this, but Hankezaria is the lead singer of a Bruce Springsteen cover band. Not like that sounds made up, but it's it's actually true. And so, but what was so interesting was the day before the event, he had spent time on site seeing this organization's mission being delivered.

And he had become a super fan and had had his heart changed and life touched by seeing up fr up front, close and personal, the organization's story. And so those types of things that feel big, inviting someone in and telling their story, as you're gonna hear Britney talk about, they make all the world a difference. And so now, you know, whether or not it's Hank Azaria or or Ronnie Richard, not that you're polar opposites.

altogether, but man, creating fans, listening intently and being authentic to how you tell your story. Is there a better way to go about driving success right now? Yeah. Well, here to share what's behind the door from the key is Brittany Hodak on the Rcady Group Thinkers podcast.

Ronnie Richard (04:02.253)

The key.

Justin McCord (04:15.552)

Okay, Brittany, let's start with Shark Tank.

Justin McCord (04:20.514)

That's the question. That's it. That's it. That's the question.

Brittank Hodak (04:24.3)

Here's the fun thing about Shark Tank. I got a phone call one day from a casting director who said, Hey, I just read about your startup. You guys sound really cool. Do you want to come on Shark Tank? And I said, Yeah, that sounds super fun. I definitely want to come on Shark Tank. And so I've heard from other people who've been on the show about these like crazy audition processes and showing up for open calls and a million rounds of things. And I was very fortunate in that I recorded a quick casting video.

And they were like, Yeah, great. Like you need to come to LA on the state. And so that part was really easy. The part that was a little bit taxing was I was running a marketing agency at the time and we were working with celebrities. And in order to be able to show all of the products, we had to clear name image likeness for like the biggest stars in the world because the production company doesn't just want obviously to get rights for

The United States, it's like worldwide in perpetuity, ever and ever and ever. And so, but we weren't supposed to tell people what we were doing. And so we were working, we was like so confining because we were reaching out to all these attorneys and labels saying, We need you to sign this, and we can't tell you the name of the production company. We just need you to sign off that we can use your artist image forever and ever and ever across the whole universe. Please trust us. And so finally, then we were able to give them the name of the production company.

But that was we had, I don't know, probably six or eight weeks between when we agreed to go on the show and when we were filming that we were just hustling. And I remember there were a couple that came in when we were like in hair and makeup for the show. Like it was like Brian Wilson was like in surgery. Like we had every beach boy but Brian. And we were like, We we please can you not just let the company that owns his NIL sign off? And they're like, Nope. So we literally were having to get like the actual stars like to be able to show stuff of

Katie Perry and Taylor Swift and Brad Paisley and all these others. So that was that was a lot of work.

Justin McCord (06:21.55)

That's that's quite the one, quite the rush, just in general. And and I find that a lot of people that work in marketing company environments, agency environments, tend to have an addiction to rush oriented projects. And and so I would think that there's a little bit of the thrill and excitement that drives a lot of that as you get that call up until, you know, the hair makeup and

how did you how did you work on the story of the company at the same time as, you know, obviously the there's the team and you have resources dedicated to getting the rights to to tell certain parts, but like the the pitch itself, the story that you were presenting, how did that come together?

Brittany Hodak (07:13.048)

So really it was, it was just our origin story. And that was the the producer had read our story. And so when he reached out, he was like, I want you to come on the show and say this essentially, which was what he had read. So I always wanted to work in the music industry, was interning at a label in college. It was, I don't know, probably 2003, 2004, and every call. So I was a college rep.

And the way this program was structured was there were kids working all across the United States in different markets. My market was Little Rock. And we would, you know, hang up posters at record stores and give away free CDs and set up contests with the kids on campus, just like regular sort of street team things. And then every two weeks, there was a different music executive who would get on a conference call with all 50 of us or however many there were. And because of the climate at the time, because of

you know, iTunes being brand new and everything was still about like LimeWire and Napster and stealing every single one of these executives was like, find another job. You guys are still in college, it's not too late. You can do something else. Go work for a video game company, go work for a Hollywood studio, like do anything but music. And just every call, week after week after week after week. And as a college kid, I was like, Well, if you guys are so doom and gloom about people not buying physical music anymore.

Why don't you just make physical music that's worth buying? Like, why would somebody get into the car, drive to the store, pay $20 for this stupid piece of plastic that offers zero benefit to just stealing it from other friends? Like make it collectible, make it feel like merch, make it something people want to keep on their coffee table or their nightstand or in their car. And so I put together a business plan for what it would look like to create these.

Deluxe packages for super fans that wanted to get closer to the artist that they love. I said, What if we could take the concert experience, the backstage experience, the let me be in the studio when you're recording this? Like you pour your heart and soul into this music, and then you slap it in like a 48 cent plastic case with like one photo. What if we put as much love into the packaging as we did into the music product? So I wrote a business plan for what this would look like and kept trying to get people to let me.

Brittany Hodak (09:33.666)

do it at different record labels. And I just kept being told no, or I would be told, you know, that's not quite what we do. Like let's tweak it to do this. It was always about the ROI. And I was like, we will sell a ton of these, but that's not what it's about. It's about creating something that fans want to collect, that they want to own, that they want to have. And so

I finally started my own company. a music buyer at Walmart actually, who truly believed in this idea and believed in me, said, I will give you a vendor number if you can talk a record label into trying this, because you've been talking about this for so long. And so, probably five or six years after I graduated from college and like so many years of trying to sell this idea into various people is when I launched my own company.

And so the producer was like, that's the story that we're telling. You're gonna come, you're gonna talk about how you were this accidental entrepreneur, how you went from nobody getting excited about this inside of huge record labels to where now they're all paying you money, you're selling eight figures worth of products every single year in Walmart stores, you're working with the biggest celebrities on the planet. Like that's the story that we tell. And then, you know, when you go on Chart Tank and have a like why we're here storyline. Yeah. And why we're here was

True, it was we wanted to expand beyond music. Most of our sales were in retail and almost all of our sales were in music. And so we said we want to get into sports, we want to get into video games, we want to get into movies. And so overnight, like when it aired on ABC several months after we filmed it, it was like the owners of professional sports teams calling saying, Can we fly you down to come, you know, meet with our marketing department?

and studios saying, Hey, come on a studio tour. Let's talk about what we can do with all of the historic catalog we have and all of these amazing titles that we own. So it was a really fun experience.

Justin McCord (11:20.556)

Fascinating.

Ronnie Richard (11:21.484)

So you touched on something that's that's fascinating. And it's it's something that today we we feel I feel like we kind of take for granted somewhat in that we know creating experiences draws people in and is very valuable. And you see companies trying to create these big experiences, and it speaks to all the things that I we're gonna keep digging into about super fans and everything. But yet you're saying this isn't that long ago.

that they were having trouble seeing the ROI on that because they were thinking very transactionally of that, you know, this thing isn't worth that because in this moment, this C D, this jewel case needs to be cheap because we need to maximize the profit on this thing. And they weren't thinking bigger picture of how do you build this super fan? Like how did you get how did you sell that idea to them?

Brittany Hodak (12:17.184)

You know, it's funny to the record labels. I basically said, you have such a small influence on the overall picture for the artist. So this is around the time record companies were trying to lock artists into what they called 360 deals, which means we participate in everything. So we get a share of the revenue, we get a share of the touring, we get a share of all of the things, but those were still really uncommon. So I was like, okay, you already like your seat at the table is retail distribution of recorded music.

And streaming. Why would you not want to maximize that? Why would you not want to create something that creates more of an experience and an event around the one little slice of the pie that you have? I'm trying to help you expand your slice of the pie to make it bigger, to give you more of a seat at the table, to be honest. And you know, it's what it's funny. One of the one of the

perception things that a lot of people get wrong about the music industry is they think that the labels have like all of this control and like they're the ones calling the shot. but they really don't. Like from an artist perspective, the label is just your your sales team. Like it's just the partner who's like writing the checks for your music videos and making sure that, you know, your your picture is updated on the streaming site and you know, you you have vinyl or or or music available for purchase at stars. And it's really like your management company and your your

promoters and your touring partners and everybody else who commands like a much larger share of your focus as an artist because they control such a bigger portion of of what it is. But people think like their record label is the sort of like you win the lottery if you get signed to a label. And so that was really the pitch internally was like, you guys want a bigger slice of the pie, you want a bigger seat at the table. And then because we had a relationship with Walmart, which of course our label partners did too,

Typically the way it worked was people were gonna buy, like Walmart would buy, you know, 50,000, 100,000, 150,000, however many copies it was that we had negotiated up front. And they would buy those what's called one way, which means non returnable. So we were saying you're gonna get this many millions of dollars of incremental revenue. They're not gonna buy less of the standard CD because they're buying this. It's just now because they're bringing in this much inventory.

Brittany Hodak (14:31.842)

Here's what it looks like from a CPG standpoint, where we can bring some sponsors along, where we can have a display in the stores, where we can get you on Walmart TV or Walmart radio or just, you know, building like multifaceted multi-layer campaigns that traditionally the label wasn't thinking about because they weren't having as many conversations with like the mascara partner or the wine partner or the, you know, beef jerky partner. So we could come kind of like be that bridge to say when we all work together, it's one plus one plus one equals fifteen, not like

One plus one equals two.

Justin McCord (15:04.277)

What's so

Connective about this. Well, there's a few different threads. you know, Brittany, there was a season of my life where I worked in minor league baseball. And at the time, this was in the early 2000s, and ownership groups for minor league baseball, like pre-Savanna bananas, like tell as old a time in minor league baseball is it's more entertainment than sport. And so

What are the things that you can do to wrap entertainment value around the experience that draws people in and in your target market, predominantly families, et cetera? And we were at the time even testing and exploring how do you create fan rich experiences and how you present season tickets to the season ticket holder.

So, you know, I worked for a year and a half with a paper engineer on the design of a pop-up book that was a box that when you opened the cover of the book, the stadium itself popped up, right? And then you turn the page and it's like your season tickets. And so it's these little novel moments that truly matter and make a difference in anyone's connection to anything. You know, I I I was looking to the side. I actually had a photo back here of my oldest.

When he was four months old, zooming in, see, that's him at four months old. That's me with hair. and in the middle is an athlete named Paul Pierce. my son is named after Paul Pierce, the basketball player, because I'm a Celtics fan and I like to remind Ronnie of the number of championships that the Celtics have. Talk about the and but so anyway.

Justin McCord (16:55.542)

At the point at which Pierce was born, I fired off an email to like a handful of random email addresses from the Celtics organization with a pitch of, hey, this is the biggest little Celtics fan in Texas. He's just born February 12th of this next year. He'll be four months old. I know it's a ridiculous ask, but if it were possible, remotely possible, for him to meet his namesake, Paul Pierce, that would make my heart so happy. And so help me. Two days before the game, that next February, I got an email.

We got a yes. We got passes of the game. I got to take pictures with Paul Pierce holding Pierce. But what was even more important, because he doesn't remember that, is they gave us a box of things. And they gave us something that as a family, my wife and I like could never conceive that made that experience so much more worthwhile, right? Mementos, books, sign stuff, whatever, whatever, whatever. It for their PR team, that was.

I don't know, fifteen minutes of effort.

But I've told that story in the last 17 years, maybe 50 or 100 times. And there are people that are now fans of the organization that wouldn't have. It seems so simple. Why as companies, why as organizations, do we not think about creating those sort of experiences first thing? Why do we think about it last?

Brittany Hodak (18:22.37)

Yeah. Because they feel like little things, but as we all know as humans, the little things are always the biggest things. They're the things we remember, they're the things that we talk about. And you know, one of the things that I've seen be true again and again and again and again and again is that we are all influencers. Every single one of us have people in our lives who make decisions based solely on what we say. When we say this place is great, this organization is awesome, this place is a nightmare, stay away. Like that's the only proof people need.

And that's been true forever, right? It's word of mouth marketing has been the most trusted, the most valuable, the most sought after kind of marketing since probably the dawn of businesses and it always will be. And I think as we're living in this world where it's g being harder to trust things because of AI, because how easy it is to manipulate some of the things that we traditionally look to as trust signals, that it's gonna accelerate the importance of word of mouth even more in the years that follow. And so companies have to have a plan.

For those little things, have to have a plan for those things that elevate it beyond just a fine but forgettable experience to a I can't wait to talk about this moment.

Ronnie Richard (19:32.106)

So when we're thinking about nonprofit organizations who, you know, we serve RKD Group, they're in this interesting moment right now where historically, maybe like my parents' generation, for example, supported nonprofit organizations, these these long-standing institutions, because that's what you did. That was that's part of who you are. And you support these organizations because they're making the world a better place. But we see today that

For a for a variety of reasons, some of the some of the trust of the institutions has been lost. And it's not anything they one institution did specifically for the most part. People are looking for other ways to give and other ways to support these causes, sometimes just giving money directly to someone else who's who's in need. So when we think about that from the nonprofit organization's point of view, they

could certainly benefit from building these experiences and these connections with the people who support them. So when you think about your work in in creating super fans, what would you how would you coach a nonprofit or what would you say to them thinking about all of that?

Brittany Hodak (20:49.302)

Yeah, well, the first thing I would say is that super fans are created at the intersection of your story and theirs. So the first question you've got to ask yourself is why do I deserve for a donor to continue to be loyal to me, to continue to give to me? And the hard truth is doing good in the world isn't enough because there are lots and lots and lots of organizations doing good in the world and lots of individuals. And I think

you know, anybody in the nonprofit world right now paying attention knows that their competitive set isn't just other nonprofits. It's every GoFundMe, it's every person in their community. There is no shortage of things that people can do. And when the need feels so great everywhere around us right now, I think probably a lot of people are saying, What can I do in my own community? What can I do?

With people. So it's, I think it's probably never been more competitive from every direction, not just the ones that maybe five or 10 years ago you would have looked to and say people are choosing between X and Y, or if they're giving more to this, they're giving less to this. And so what you've got to do is make the case of why what you're doing is not only important, but also important to the identity of the person who's giving. Because when you can connect your charity story to that donor story when they feel intrinsically linked.

Not only are they going to give more, but they're going to tell more people. And when you have donors that are creating more donors, that is when things become really sustainable. And the good news there is that it's often the low cost and no cost things that you have to lean into that people are going to remember that they're going to talk about.

Justin McCord (22:21.698)

when you spent some time with us a few weeks back, we had an event near your home there in the Nashville area, had many clients and other nonprofit leaders in the room. One of the things that you that you spoke about was how advocacy is greater than advertising. And you hinted at this just now, but curious if you can unpack that a little more for us.

Brittany Hodak (22:46.156)

Yeah. So one of the s the stories that that I shared on stage was I had dinner with a really fascinating individual at a conference and he told me about a charity that he had founded because of something he had seen that broke his heart when he was visiting a country and he had founded I honestly I don't even know if it's like incorporated as a nonprofit. He was just like, here's what we're doing. And I was like, Man, that's really cool. And I found where he had talked about it on his social media, sent him a thousand dollars after the dinner just you know.

Because I thought it was cool what he was doing, forgot about it. A few weeks later, which happened to be like a day or two before the event in Nashville, he sent a video from he'd like gone back to the to this country and he was there with the children who were benefiting. And it was just like a 20 second video that he and they sent. and you know, it was so touching and so heartfelt. And I don't know how many of those he recorded with those kids over the period of, you know, however many days or weeks he was there, but I know I showed it to my kids.

I showed it to my husband. I would have posted it on my social media probably under a different context, but I didn't because of what the message was. and I am certainly gonna continue to be to be giving to that charity to that cause because now it feels really personal because I've seen it up close. And in a way that when you get a text video message, it feels different than like something you watch on Instagram or something you see. And so creating that kind of advocacy of like.

Wow, what he's doing is so great. Like, even though I didn't post that video, I've told so many people about what he's doing. I've shared his other public videos. I've shared that cause. And I know I've been the reason lots and lots of other people have donated in the few weeks since. and so that's like when you have donors that want to share your story, that attracts others in a way that you could never do. Because anytime you tell your own story, no matter how good you're doing it, like.

That's still just marketing. Like everybody does it. But when somebody who trusts you says, no, you've got to check this out, we listen with a different degree of attention. We trust it a little more when it's peer-to-peer. And that's what I mean when I say that, you know, advocacy gets your name into conversations that advertising can never reach.

Justin McCord (25:02.006)

And it when done well, advocacy even to the point of like creating apostles. Like there's some there's like this bridge between those ideas. It communicates your story in such a different, authentic way than connected TV ad, right? Or a static, you know,

programmatic display ad, whatever, like those different things, all of those are important. The marketing channels are very important, but to your point, like the ability to tell your story and to do it authentically, that's a different lever that I think is I think it's innate to every single nonprofit leader. I don't know that they always have the forum or the resources or can think through how to make the time.

To authentically capture and and distribute their story in a way like that.

Brittany Hodak (26:05.004)

Well, and another thing that I think not a lot of nonprofits are doing at the extent of what some like for profit companies are doing with the technology that's available is the attribution tagging of, you know, so much giving is done digitally. You've got to be thinking about where did this come from? Where did this originate from? And if you don't ask the question, you may miss out on the fact that you've got a lot of mid level donors.

That even if they're only giving you a few thousand dollars a year, they could be generating 10x or even a hundred X of their own value in the relational value of the people that they're telling and the people that they're sharing your story with. And so if you're not doing a good job of tracking the people who truly love your charity, who are out there talking about your charity, who are telling their friends, you may run the risk of not recognizing them.

And over time, if you've got somebody who feels like, wow, I'm so passionate about this charity. This cause means so much to me. They're doing so much. And you never feel seen, you never feel acknowledged. At some point, you may move on to another charity that either whether it operates in a similar space or has whatever it was that that made like a, you know, like a like a psychological connection of like, I feel like this is part of me, you may miss that. And so it's become so imperative to like.

Make sure that your tracking matches the level of what you would want to be able to know and see about those, what I would call super fan donors.

Justin McCord (27:39.618)

I am a fan of having folks be a part of this conversation that have walked in the shoes of someone in marketing. And so thank you for preaching for a moment around that because it is, it's crucial to deepening, you know, your relationship with donors to be able to understand like what are the things that I did that could have deep deepened those those relationships.

Brittany Hodak (28:04.534)

And because it's like, you know, it's one of those things where like the best personalization feels like a friend who knows you and the worst feels like the like creepy, intrusive person. I get the ick anytime a brand is like, tell me more about what you did or what you said, because like you should know, like the technology exists. Like you should be reaching out saying, Thank you for this, or we appreciate you doing that. Not like, hey, can you like do my homework for me and tell me what you think about or what you're doing?

And so I think that's also, you know, looking at everything through a lens of if we are asking people to basically bankroll our existence, then we should come to the table doing our part to show that we are paying attention and grateful to them for the fact that their charity allows us to go, you know, fight the good fight for the cause that that we exist to to tackle.

Ronnie Richard (29:04.544)

If I'm putting on my development director hat and I'm saying, okay, Britney, I hear everything you say and I agree with it. And that sounds like an excellent plan. I'm s I'm I'm sitting here with a small budget. I've got so many things on my plate. I'm overwhelmed right in this moment. Where do I even begin to start down this path? Is it setting up attribution like you were talking to? Is it Justin like you were referencing

Creating some like a a t a tactile experience of some sort. I like like the pop up book, like how do I get going down this path? Because it it feels overwhelming in this moment. What would you say to them?

Brittany Hodak (29:48.182)

Say it's it's the things that you're forcing discipline around today that buy you more runway in the future that are going to save you time, that are going to get you more donors. So even though it feels overwhelming, there's some things that are like you you just have to do because they're the things that are you know setting you up for the future. Like we all wish we could have, you know, gone back and and bought the stock when it was cheaper or put the money in to have it grow over time. so I would say figuring out attribution.

Even in like very small, clunky ways right now of asking, you know, what what influenced your decision to give today or how did you find out about us? Like just very, very basic, simple steps that can give you a little bit of intelligence. If you are overwhelmed and you don't have a big team, start with calls to a couple of your most generous donors and and get to know what it is that you have done to make them feel so connected to.

And loyal to you. And they will appreciate that sincerity of you calling to say, you know, I want to thank you so much. And I want to figure out, you know, how how we can continue to overdeliver for you, how we can continue to exceed your expectations. So let's talk about what that looks like. And what I have found across every sector is that when you ask people to share, they will. Like especially people who are giving money, they love for their voice to be heard. They love to feel like

Somebody who is in a position to act on their feedback is asking them for their feedback. So I would say.

Brittany Hodak (31:24.874)

If it feels like you are too overwhelmed to listen to or get better attribution from your donors, you've got to figure out something and move off your plate because that has to be number one. Because if you're not connecting your story to theirs in a way that is meaningful, in a way that you can maximize in a way that you're measuring, then that is a recipe for disaster down the line. And in the short term, could be creating some of the urgency around feeling like,

We need more, we need this, we've got this. Like they're that could you those two things may be more connected than they than they seem on the face.

Justin McCord (32:02.047)

I think in the climate that we're in, in terms of

Technology explosion and rapid pace of change and divided attention from prospective donors, prospective fans, prospective advocates. That if we don't better prioritize listening in some way, shape, or form, we're going to lose. And so

To me, whenever I hear you talk about attribution, that is a version of marking how you're listening to something, right?

Brittany Hodak (32:47.776)

And and also honestly, like future proofing, because you know, one of the things that I say in the for-profit world all the time is retention is a lagging indicator. Like if you are just saying this is how many people we retained, you are missing out on way more important forward looking data because there are plenty of things that you continue to give to, continue to be loyal to, haven't canceled yet, haven't stopped doing yet just because of the like mental work of identifying a better solution now. You're waiting for somebody to come along and do something else.

But just because somebody is continuing to donate, you know, annually, quarterly, monthly, whatever it is, like if you are not talking to them, having conversations with them, you risk not knowing that they are going to leave you until it's way too late to do anything about it. And so that's the attribution tracking of like how many people are being referred by their friends, get you ahead of the retention problem.

Justin McCord (33:42.23)

Brittany, I'll tell you, like, we have invested this year in even new ways of creating the context for listening, like reaching out to clients and saying, hey, we want to have a listening session. Like we've got a handful of questions that we just want to ask, right? So as opposed to it's not supposed to be in lieu of a survey, right? Right. Client-level surveys or donor-level surveys, customer level surveys. Those are very, very, very important. But why not add on to that?

And and given that everyone shows up with their AI note taker at this point, you're actually collecting all sorts of data that then you can piece together and say, look at the patterns across 10 different listening sessions as to what it revealed about how we show up and where we need to be better. Like so powerful for anyone in the context of leading any type of organization.

Brittany Hodak (34:36.384)

Absolutely.

Justin McCord (34:38.673)

Okay.

Ronnie Richard (34:40.151)

There's one thing I I have to know that it's been sitting out here. We we talked about Shark Tank, but honestly how did it go? We didn't we didn't we didn't ask how it went.

Brittany Hodak (34:52.526)

my gosh. Okay. I was on season six and at the time I my company had I think the highest ever valuation for a female founded company and if not like very near the top. we were offered deals from four of the sharks and we did a deal, I say with like air quotes with two of the sharks. and we're very excited to move forward. But then when once we got into the due diligence period, it quickly became

Evident that this was like not a deal we actually really wanted to do or that would add the kind of value for you know various reasons. So we ended up, the the fun thing about Chart Tank is that you the deal, if the deal falls through before your episode is slated to air, they may not air your episode. And so it was a very long, drawn-out due diligence period because we were very near the season finale. And so it was a lot of like.

unfortunately our accountant's not available. He's out of the country again. Maybe we can talk three weeks.

Justin McCord (35:55.022)

He's got a doctor's appointment again today.

Brittany Hodak (35:57.974)

Yeah, but so so we ended up not having to deal in real life. but it was it was it was such a fun experience. It was very cool. And what's funny about it is so it's been now like, I don't know, a decade since I filmed it. I still get people coming to my website for the first time all over the world because it airs in like a hundred and something countries. And so it's like this little time capsule that people will, you know, write in from

countries all over the world or I used to like look at my Google Analytics and I would be like, wow, like thirty thousand people from, you know, wherever were on our website this week, like Shark Tank must aired in Switzerland. so yeah, it was it was a really fun experience.

Justin McCord (36:37.88)

That's awesome. Well, what Britt Brittany, I think that the, you know, the idea, the ideas that you shared with our audience, also the ideas that are prominent in your book, and just helping center us on what it means to connect with people one by one, and and then do that in a scalable format. there's never I think there's never not been a need.

for that type of effort and intentionality. And I also think that there has never been a greater need than right now for it. And so we we just really appreciate you sharing your expertise, both with our audience in person when we were together in Nashville, but even sharing some of those principles today as a part of this conversation.

Brittany Hodak (37:28.066)

Well, thank you. You know, I always say if your donors aren't telling their friends about you, you're in trouble. And I know I've said that in this episode, but I want to say it again because I want everybody out there listening to say, are our donors talking about us to their friends? And if not, what do we need to do to get them talking? If they are talking about us, what are they saying? What are the stories that we're creating? What are the experiences that we're enabling? What is it that we're doing to become worthy of that conversation?

We know that most people talk about more than a dozen brands a day on average. What are you doing to be part of the mix? Are your donors creating more donors for you? If not, that's your homework.

Ronnie Richard (38:02.437)

Well said.

Group Thinkers is a production of RKD Group. For more information, including how you can partner with RKD to accelerate growth for your fundraising and nonprofit marketing needs, visit RKDgroup.com.